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Old 10-05-2011, 08:24 AM   #1
Inverse
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Default Wild speculation!

So, with a bit more evidence that the Spartan FBL unit is progressing and a few teasers about specifications, what features would you like to see?

Mac software.
Bluetooth.
Self level that works with a minimum of fuss (a minimum flight ceiling would be excellent too but hard to implement).
A capable nitro and electric governor.
Extra channels available for extras such as a remote glow device, lights, retracts etc.
Remote sensor.
Immune to vibrations ()
Dual sat/SBUS support.
Vib analysis.

Anything I missed?
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:20 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverse View Post
So, with a bit more evidence that the Spartan FBL unit is progressing and a few teasers about specifications, what features would you like to see?

Mac software.
Bluetooth.
Self level that works with a minimum of fuss (a minimum flight ceiling would be excellent too but hard to implement).
A capable nitro and electric governor.
Extra channels available for extras such as a remote glow device, lights, retracts etc.
Remote sensor.
Immune to vibrations ()
Dual sat/SBUS support.
Vib analysis.

Anything I missed?
Based on what I've read from Angelos in the past regarding the difficulties involved with developing software for the mac OS I highly doubt that there will be a Mac version.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #3
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Last time I talked to Angelos I asked him if he would include some come of vibration analysis tool, his response was that you wouldnt need it because it would be immune to vibrations.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #4
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It may be immune, but I like the vib analysis tool, it gives a good indication as to how your heli is maintenance wise.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:19 AM   #5
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Immune to vibrations?

I'm in
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionsx00 View Post
Immune to vibrations?

I'm in
Lol!
You'll be first in line I bet!
Looking forward to the "press" release and seeing what they are planning.
If it looks the goods, I'll be keeping the Knight FB for now until they release it instead of splurging on a VBar.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:43 PM   #7
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man this threads got me all excited

This is what I've been waiting for.

When is the press release?
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:40 AM   #8
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I want to add some:

bank switching
android app for setting/monitoring
integrated bluetooth for cleaner wiring
vibration analyse, I'm on Inverse's side, but maybe not in the initial release but in update firmware 2.0 or 3.0, I can wait
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:59 PM   #9
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There are some fundamental problems with vibration analysis.

First, much of what the FFT plot shows is peaty much pointless because it just tells you what you already know. There will be one peak at the motor/engine RPM, one at the main rotor RPM, one at the tail rotor RPM and some other noise in between. What is important is the amplitude of the peaks but to make use of it you need to have something to compare against... a "perfect" identical heli. Many of the kits I built had some minor vibration issue out of the box maybe due to a bad part, mis-balanced blades, new engine being broken in, etc. So how do you get a perfect heli to set your benchmark? And after all the efforts to make the heli perfect you may still not be as good as it can get.

Second, once you spent the extra cash to get the better gyro sensors that are less susceptible to vibration, set the filters to the bandwidth where your desired signal is, etc... how do you expect to analyse for the vibration that you hardware is designed not to see? Yes you may get some readings but the magnitude would be significantly attenuated at higher frequencies. Typically only the main rotor will fall close what a gyro sensors should be allowed to measure if he hardware is designed correctly.

I have been meaning to try something but never got around to it. There is an iPhone App that does real time FFT. Perhaps if the microphone is installed on the heli it can pick vibrations from the heli. Failing that, the microphone could be substituted by an analogue accelerometer which should work. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ianal...342456044?mt=8

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Old 10-11-2011, 03:24 PM   #10
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Thanks for the link Angelos. Certainly a cheaper option than the alternative XA1; I didn't realise apps could sell for as much as 124.99!!!!

Steve
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:50 PM   #11
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I see your point Angelos, but from experience it works pretty well on the skookum.

As you say you can see where the vibes are coming from, and while you don't necessarily have a frame of reference you can see whther things you do improve them.

For example I had a vibe at tail rpm fore/aft, magnitude around 5-6.

Yes 5-6 is an arbitrary scale, and it's hard to say whether that is acceptable or even completely normal without a frame of reference. However I took the whole hub off and balanced it as one (previously I had just balanced blades) and the vibes dropped to below 1... So you can see it improved. That effectively gives you some frame of reference.

This is a vibe I probably wouldn't even have known about without the vibration analyser on the skookum.


Anyway, all that aside... Give me some details on this thing already! I'm itching to support a good British company with my cash
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:38 PM   #12
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I can see why the Skookum may work well for vibration analysis since it has accelerometers which perhaps have higher bandwidth than the gyros. However, I am told that the self levelling feature requires very low vibrations in order to work. If you add a 25Hz low pass filter to remove the rotor vibrations (lowest freq on heli) and potentially make self levelling work better then your accelerometers are no longer suitable for vibration analysis.

You see, the vibration analysis and stabilisation are two different problems requiring exactly the opposite hardware. One requires good vibration filtering and the other no filters at all. Yes there are some half way solutions like programmable bandwidth on the sensor (limits you to specific bandwidth options and limited choice of sensors that offer this) or digital filtering which again has its own drawbacks. Given that accelerometers are now very cheap I would probably prefer to make a separate little sensor that plugs into the DataPod and does vibration analysis though that than make compromises to the design of the flybarless. In any case I have not done much testing on made any decisions on this yet. Let's see how vibration analysis fairs with my existing FBL sensor.

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Old 10-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #13
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Ah okay, I get your point more clearly now.

As far as priorities go, a solid self level would be way higher on the list than vibe analysis... I get what you are saying about the catch 22 situation now. I haven't actually had cause to use the bail out on my skookum more than once, but it's nice to know it's there, and if you can combine it with GPS then interesting and fun things start to become possible.

The solution of a separate vibe analysis box is a good one imo, and would be far preferable than having to compromise the FBL unit.

Like I've said before, I know its all safe in your hands! Eagerly awaiting the "press release"!

Perhaps still a bit early, but can you say if it'll have a governor mode? I'm currently speccing out my 600 and the choice of ESC available changes a bit if you start looking at those which work well with external governors.
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:45 AM   #14
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Cheers for the explanation Angelos, very much appreciated.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:57 AM   #15
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Nice explanation, I think that is why we all love Spartan and Angelos
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:14 AM   #16
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To avoid duplication I will post future updates on the other thread that has been running in parallel with this one. You may wish to subscribe there too. www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=342451

-Angelos
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:51 AM   #17
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I want a "artificial floor" that the heli will auto self level at.
Cheers Angelos!
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