Transitioning from 450 - Recommended Tools?

[isogloss3d]

Transitioning from 450 - Recommended Tools?

Hi guys,

I'm planning on building a 6HV this winter, after a season with two TREX 450s, and would like to be prepared for the build and maintenance. Honestly, all I know about 600-size helicopters it that they're bigger, faster, more expensive and supposedly more stable/easy to fly.

Between my research and a handful of local helifreaks, I feel pretty comfortable picking out electronics, batteries and charger but haven't given much thought to tools and materials for building and maintenance.

Please feel free to comment, add or erase from my list, assuming I already have the stuff to build/fix/maintain 450s.

1. Hex drivers: Do I need anything larger than 3 mm?

2. Nut drivers: Sizes? I'm assuming all Compass hardware is metric?

3. Ball link pliers: Will my Align ball link pliers work?

4. Ball link sizer: Will the JR one I use with my 450 work?

5. Roll pin punch: Already have a common set

6. Blade balancing: I've been using Finless' method with the tiny Align seasaw balancer and spare mainshaft for CG matching. What is your preferred method/tool?

7. FBL pitch gauge: Been getting by with the low-tech Align "pitch guage" which is simply a temp. bolt on flybar What is your preferred tool (RC logger, Beast bevel box, other "low-tech" analog method, etc.)

8. Any other stuff I haven't thought of.....

I still need to go through the PDF manual and any build videos so perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself. Still, I'd appreciate any input.

[Larry227]

I haven't done much wrenching on mine since the build last month and it's my first 600 size also but I'll try to answer a few things.

1. I think a 3mm hex driver will be the largest you need. I just gave mine a quick look and that's the blade grip bolts. Don't remember if the feathering shaft is 3 or 2.5mm though.

2. Sorry, I don't have any nut drivers. Where the nuts aren't inset I just use small pliers. Nut drivers are on my list of things I want though.

3. I have some cheap ball link pliers from DealExtreme or someplace and I've used them on my 400 and 500 and they work fine for me on the 6HV also. They look identical to these.

4. I made my own ball link sizer out of a spare compass ball because I didn't want to wait for the JR one I ordered but I did get it and it looks like this and it works (though I think my homemade one works better). Not sure if it's the same one you have or not.

5. Not sure what size roll pin punch is needed. I keep forgetting to bring my set home from work to check the size so I can get an extra. It's not needed for the build though.

6. I'll let someone else answer that. I haven't actually balanced mine yet. On my 500 I used to just weigh them on a gram scale if I checked them at all.

7. I guess right now my favorite method is an app for my iphone called RCpitch. Before that I used a small square digital gauge like you use for table saws. Either way, I double check final pitch with the Vbar pitch calculator.

8. There's always something else. The one thing I forgot was extra silicone wire to make my series harness and BEC harness. I had enough to get by for a maiden flight but it was ugly so I ordered more and made new ones. Haven't got to fly it yet thanks to the weather.
You may also need a Dremel and/or file.

Welcome to the Compass world!

[isogloss3d]

Thanks for the reply Larry.

I had assumed that the ball link pliers and sizer were universal but assumptions can often be problematic so I figured I'd ask.

After watching a couple videos, the build looks pretty simple.

[Larry227]

Just remember you'll probably have to size the links on the tail grips too. Enjoy the build!

[SkyRaptor]

Adding some info to Larry's post.. just my 2 cents.
[/QUOTE]

[quote]

Originally Posted by isogloss3d

1. Hex drivers: Do I need anything larger than 3 mm?

I have four sizes: 1.5mm, 2mm, 2.5mm and 3mm. I needed all of them. By the way, you need 2 of 3mm to spindle shaft bolts.

2. Nut drivers: Sizes? I'm assuming all Compass hardware is metric?

I have a small pliers that works very well.

3. Ball link pliers: Will my Align ball link pliers work?

All the ball links are 4.8mm, so you need a tool for such size.

4. Ball link sizer: Will the JR one I use with my 450 work?

You will need a sizer for sure. I think 450's ball links are smaller than 4.8mm, am I right?? If so, they will no fit.. I've bought a compass sizer, it's cheaper and works fine.. but you can do it yourself as Larry said.

5. Roll pin punch: Already have a common set

I just use a small nail or anything else with same diameter.

6. Blade balancing: I've been using Finless' method with the tiny Align seasaw balancer and spare mainshaft for CG matching. What is your preferred method/tool?

I like to balance new blades although almost all times they are balanced right out of the box. I have a regular blade balancer and a small digital scale... works fine.

7. FBL pitch gauge: Been getting by with the low-tech Align "pitch guage" which is simply a temp. bolt on flybar What is your preferred tool (RC logger, Beast bevel box, other "low-tech" analog method, etc.)

In my opinion, this is a MUST!! It will save you a LOT of time and give precision to the pitch adjustment. I have the RC Logger and it's great... worth every penny.

8. Any other stuff I haven't thought of.....

- Loctite 242;
- Dremel will help some times;


and the most important: a powerfull charger and good batteries!!!

I have a Hyperion 720 SDuo3 and a set of Hyperion 2950mAh. 8 minutes flying, 8 minutes charging.

Best Regards.

[isogloss3d]

Thanks SkyRaptor. I couldn't find the ball size listed, the Compass links are simply advertised as "2.5mm ball links" (which I know isn't the ball size)

The swash balls on my 450 measure 4.73 mm dia. and the JR tool is adjustable to open up some so it just may work.

I know that field refueling is a much more serious business, at this size, and requires some serious hardware. I'm eyeing the CellPro PL-6 and a trailer with a couple forklift batteries Also considering an iCharger or a Hyperion but haven't decided.

[Larry227]

I have a Hyperion and love it. Can't go wrong with an iCharger either though.

At work I always set aside Group31 truck batteries that are still half decent and then carry two of those to the field and hook them in series for 24v to power my Hyperion. That was when I just had a 500. Now with the 6HV I may have to start carrying four of them. I know I would be better off with deep cycles but hey, the ones I use are free. I just make sure they're completely worn out before we send them in as cores.

[SkyRaptor]

As far as I know, the two most powerful chargers on the market are Hyperion 720 SDuo3 and PowerLabs 8 V2.

Although there are other chargers standing 1000W or more, these both are capable of 40A.
The iCharger 3010 is capable of "only" 30A.

Nowadays almost all big helis are powered with a pair of batteries (usually 2x 6S), so the two ports of the Hyperion 720 is welcome because you don't need a parallel board. If you can afford it, Hyperion 720 is the best choice, in my opinion.

If the place you fly have 110V power outlet, think about getting a 1000W 24v power supply. It will make all the job easier.

If there is no power outlet available, a generator is a good idea.. but you will need the 1000W 24V power supply as well.

The last option is deep cycle batteries, but they are heavy, expensive and need to be slow charged at home.

[superrmario]

Your on track for what you need. I have a 6hv also...

Remember to ground the Boom as ccooler weather created static discarge on my machine.

A good charger and battery maintenance.

I had a Hyperion 1420i and had to send two of them back. Finally bit the bullet and purchased a 720duo.

Key with big electric is to monitor your battery pack health for longevity and safety. I ALWAYS monitor how much i put into the pack after i fly, try to never use more than 80% of rated capacity and store charge my packs after a day of flying.

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[heathy]

Agreed, the 720 super duo is awesome, However don't forget you need a kick ass power supply to bring it to life.

I have 2 HP psu's giving 1100 watts. There is some guy in the US that can make them up for you, or like me did it myself. I got the instructions from a link on here somewhere. [ sure if you asked in the main forum someone will know ]

P.s, I think Jeff has a even newer better hyperion charger!

[heathy]

Oh, should have added, you can buy power supplies of 1000 w but they are very expensive

[superrmario]

Originally Posted by heathy

Agreed, the 720 super duo is awesome, However don't forget you need a kick ass power supply to bring it to life.

I have 2 HP psu's giving 1100 watts. There is some guy in the US that can make them up for you, or like me did it myself. I got the instructions from a link on here somewhere. [ sure if you asked in the main forum someone will know ]

P.s, I think Jeff has a even newer better hyperion charger!

Just finshed making mine as well.. 47amp, 24v, 1150watts

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[isogloss3d]

Originally Posted by heathy

Agreed, the 720 super duo is awesome, However don't forget you need a kick ass power supply to bring it to life.

I have 2 HP psu's giving 1100 watts. There is some guy in the US that can make them up for you, or like me did it myself. I got the instructions from a link on here somewhere. [ sure if you asked in the main forum someone will know ]

P.s, I think Jeff has a even newer better hyperion charger!

Yeah I'm on the fence over a duo charger vs a PL-8/PL-6 w/parallel board. I've been at the field a few times with John Cook and was very impressed by his PL-8. On the other hand I've grown accustomed to multi ports using the HiTec X4 (4 port charger) which is a little under powered per port but with 5 or 6 packs for my 450s (3S 2200 or 6S 1300) you can start a rotation (with buffer for pack cooling) and fly virtually back to back - all while keeping the charge rate at 2C. I suppose there isn't much difference by having 2-3 flight packs and parallel charging at 3-3.5C with a more powerful charger.

Seeing as a 6HV pack is 2 x 6S the duo charger doesn't appear to offer any immediate advantages over parallel charging? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, do the Hyperion chargers offer useful IR readings?

The 120VAC power supply I'm using now is an old 400W gateway desktop PSU that was simple enough to convert and was more than enough power at the time. Our I.T. guy at work is hunting down a couple larger server PSUs based on a list I compiled from the previous build tutorials here on HF.

Unfortunately our flying field doesn't have AC power so I'm leaning towards 2 deep cycles for starters.

I'm still looking forward to the day when we can simply refuel with tap water

Sometimes thinking about all of this often expensive and large support equipment makes me want to get a 3D+ instead

[Larry227]

With the Duo you can still parrallel charge on one port and charge a different pack (or packs paralleled) on the second port.
I see that as the main advantage although you'll be limited to 20 amps per port (with the 0720i).
I have the one that's 15 amps per port and will probably charge 2 packs per port.

[isogloss3d]

Originally Posted by Larry227

With the Duo you can still parrallel charge on one port and charge a different pack (or packs paralleled) on the second port.
I see that as the main advantage although you'll be limited to 20 amps per port (with the 0720i).
I have the one that's 15 amps per port and will probably charge 2 packs per port.

Silly me, I get it now. Even at 15 amps it looks like you could charge each set of packs at 2C (13.2 amps) depending on input voltage and charger efficiency.

[superrmario]

Originally Posted by isogloss3d

Silly me, I get it now. Even at 15 amps it looks like you could charge each set of packs at 2C (13.2 amps) depending on input voltage and charger efficiency.

Correct. I just finished my 24v 47am power supply. I test charged a set of 3300mah 6s pack and was able to push them to 16amp each on the duo with more in reserve if the packs could handle it. Honestly, 16amp is just a redic charge rate.



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