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mSR X Blade Micro SRX Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 12-22-2011, 06:39 PM   #1
Torque Splitter
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Default mSRX nose dives with left rudder

Hi I am new to the hobby and the site. In the last month I have gone from a scout cx to mcx2 and now an mSRX. I am using the radio that came with the mcx2. I wanted a DX6i but the hobby shop was out. I plan on picking one up Saturday.

I can fly my mSRX somewhat well. I can hold a hover, and fly around my living room using forward cyclic and right rudder. I have made it through a couple batteries without crashing. I seems anytime I apply left rudder the heli just wants to nose dive. I have also noticed in a hover it leans to the right. Is this normal? Can a better radio help correct the nose dive issue? Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:57 PM   #2
MikeTE
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Leaning to the right in a hover is perfectly normal.

I'm having the same problems as you with left turns! I hope others can comment and help us to understand. So far I'm only hovering in my living room and flying slow circuits. Turning right is fine, whether it's just a rudder turn or combination of rudder and aileron. It does drift some to the right when applying right rudder but it's controllable.

HOWEVER, left turns are way out of control. Even just flying forward slowly and giving very gentle inputs. In fact, even applying left rudder while in a stable hover sends it out of control. It shoots way off to the left very quickly as if I'm banging the right hand stick to the left.

I also have experience with the mCX2, mSR and 120SR and can fly those fine. Perhaps it's just pilot error but sounds like myself and the o.p. are having a similar problem.

Anyone else seeing this?
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:55 AM   #3
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Definetly get the DX6i as it will make flying alot easier.
It has settings for the gyro and when at 100% tends to be much more stable, You would think that would be a default setting, But its not.

I can do rudder turns well enough, But aileron usage sends mine flying way to fast also. I use 70% dual rates and 15% expo But i think i need to go with 50% D/R and 20% expo and see if that dont help.
I only fly indoors so outside i doubt this would be an issue.

It about killed me to pa $160 for a radio when i could have just bought another heli, But now with 3 heli's and a rock crawler the DX6i has become invaluable.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:31 AM   #4
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I'm actually using the DX8 and have 70% d/r dialed in, no expo, don't care to use it.

Tried the 100% Gyro (think I did it right), did seem to help a little bit but it still goes WILD with even very gentle left rudder.

Hmmm, need to learn to program mixing and see if that helps any...
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:46 AM   #5
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Be sure that when you plug the battery on the heli you put it down on a flat surface quick otherwise you are going to upset the gyro when it initializes.

Remember this is not self leveling like a coax. A DX6i will help you a lot. You can put in expo to calm the stick sensitivity, can adjust the throttle curves and plug in dual rates to tame it down. A DX6i will look after most of your copter needs as you grow.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:55 AM   #6
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I'm having trouble with left turns too. I've been flying the mCPx for a while, so I don't think it's slow reflexes. Starting to wonder if the tail rotor sees some downwash from the main. I checked alignment and it seems like the motor's axis is directly sideways, not angled up or down. When you try to go left it definitely does something in the pitch axis. Mine seems to pull the nose up, but it's not always repeatable. The gyro setting on DX6i shouldn't affect the model unless the board uses a fifth channel. MSR used fifth channel for on-board dual rates.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:47 AM   #7
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Working with MIX 1 on the DX6i. A little rudder to elevator mixing seems to help, although the cross coupling effect is anything but simple. Still experimenting...
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:28 PM   #8
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Ditto with the left turns/piro... Right turns are good, but anything to the left and it trys to get away in a hurry. I know the gyro is initializing correctly as I'm careful not to move it after plugging in the batt. Hrmm.

For my tamed settings I'm using D/R 50% and + 15 -18 expo on the Aileron and Elevator 65% and -60 expo on the rudder. I've eliminated all mixing programs so far, and adjusted the throttle curves to my liking. I'm not sure how to mix out the left turn issue.

It seems to me that the channel 5 setting of the original mSR is gone in the mSRx, I tried setting it up, but it didn't seem to do anything anyway. I hope someone can figure out the left turn thing soon.

-Don
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:54 PM   #9
A Rdnek
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I am using a DX8 and fighting the same left turn thing. I have worked with mix 1, rudder to elevator, and mix 2, rudder to aileron mixes but have not had much success yet.
Ron
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:25 AM   #10
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I think this thread has completely the wrong title, is that correct? The problem is the heli nose going *up* when given left rudder?

I've been experimenting with using MIX1 and MIX2 on my DX6i to get rid of this tendency - with considerable success. There's a thread over at rcgroups with various suggestions.

I suspect the exact settings will differ from heli to heli because of differences in the level of the swash, but I'm currently using the following mixes and can now piro more or less on the spot, as well as I'd expect to be able to with my mCP X anyway - it'll never piro like an mSR: -

MIX1 RUDD -> ELEV
D -35% U -25%

MIX2 RUDD -> AILE
L -25% R +20%

Even if those aren't exactly right for everybody, you will definitely find they make a huge improvement, and you can tune from there.
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:54 AM   #11
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+1 on the real title of this thread. It leans back in a left turn and forward in a right turn. I think the OP may have experienced the end result of this pitching tendency; pilot trys to correct and it quickly gets out of control. I'm using MIX numbers on a DX6i close to what you listed. I've tried values anywhere from 15 to 60, but we are applying the same directions (+/-). I think it will come down to personal preference. If you are flying in a small area and generally making slow turns, your preferred MIX values will tend to be larger.
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:22 AM   #12
A Rdnek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fac13 View Post
I think this thread has completely the wrong title, is that correct? The problem is the heli nose going *up* when given left rudder?

I've been experimenting with using MIX1 and MIX2 on my DX6i to get rid of this tendency - with considerable success. There's a thread over at rcgroups with various suggestions.

I suspect the exact settings will differ from heli to heli because of differences in the level of the swash, but I'm currently using the following mixes and can now piro more or less on the spot, as well as I'd expect to be able to with my mCP X anyway - it'll never piro like an mSR: -

MIX1 RUDD -> ELEV
D -35% U -25%

MIX2 RUDD -> AILE
L -25% R +20%

Even if those aren't exactly right for everybody, you will definitely find they make a huge improvement, and you can tune from there.
Yes the nose does go up with left rudder, but the net result in the heli descends in a large fast, out of control left skidding turn. I think that I am trying to correct the "descent" with mix 1 and 2.
I use a DX8 so my readings are a bit different than yours. I don't have the "D" "U" "L" and "R". I have to assume the letter sysbols represent "down, up, left and right.
So by adjusting all the settings "D,U,L and R aren't you adjusting right turns as well as left? Mine makes perfect turns to the right with all the settings a "0", and coordinated application of right rudder and a bit of R aileron and U elevator.
I have tried a lot of different numbers in mix 1 and 2 and I can get pretty good (straight) left piros, but I have not improved left turns much yet.
Ron
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric66 View Post
+1 on the real title of this thread. It leans back in a left turn and forward in a right turn. I think the OP may have experienced the end result of this pitching tendency; pilot trys to correct and it quickly gets out of control. I'm using MIX numbers on a DX6i close to what you listed. I've tried values anywhere from 15 to 60, but we are applying the same directions (+/-). I think it will come down to personal preference. If you are flying in a small area and generally making slow turns, your preferred MIX values will tend to be larger.
I do fly in a small space, a 20 X 40, 7 ft. deep basement, with all the necessary obstacles, furnace, support post, airplanes, work bench, stairs etc.
I will keep increasing my numbers.
Ron
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:58 PM   #14
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Here is a post where i put some thoughts into the rudder issues.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1543

For me in about a week if i can get enough flight time i think i can be flying the MSRX as well as my mSR. Plus using others input will most likley put the icing on the cake for my final settings.

I feel REAL SORRY for anyone trying to fly this bird indoors with a stock radio.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:09 PM   #15
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I checked my CG with a 12C 150 mah mSR cell pushed all the way forward and it was right on. There is no mixing built in to the board, i.e. when sitting still at low throttle and cycling the rudder stick, the swash does not move like it did with mSR. I think these interactions have to do with how far she leans right in a hover to counteract tail rotor thrust. The gyros want to hold her in that tilted plane and when you order left yaw, the downward component of tail rotor thrust is suddenly reduced. This in turn reduces the nose down pitching moment and she wants to pitch up. The opposite occurs in a right turn and that is why she wants to pitch down when the tail rotor thrust increases. Just a theory...
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #16
Dasfriek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric66 View Post
I checked my CG with a 12C 150 mah mSR cell pushed all the way forward and it was right on. There is no mixing built in to the board, i.e. when sitting still at low throttle and cycling the rudder stick, the swash does not move like it did with mSR. I think these interactions have to do with how far she leans right in a hover to counteract tail rotor thrust. The gyros want to hold her in that tilted plane and when you order left yaw, the downward component of tail rotor thrust is suddenly reduced. This in turn reduces the nose down pitching moment and she wants to pitch up. The opposite occurs in a right turn and that is why she wants to pitch down when the tail rotor thrust increases. Just a theory...
Ill have to reread that 5 times to get all that info to soak in. But i think your onto something as the heli does tilt to the right in hover. So ill be thinking about all this and hopefully its an easy fix or setting.
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric66 View Post
I checked my CG with a 12C 150 mah mSR cell pushed all the way forward and it was right on. There is no mixing built in to the board, i.e. when sitting still at low throttle and cycling the rudder stick, the swash does not move like it did with mSR. I think these interactions have to do with how far she leans right in a hover to counteract tail rotor thrust. The gyros want to hold her in that tilted plane and when you order left yaw, the downward component of tail rotor thrust is suddenly reduced. This in turn reduces the nose down pitching moment and she wants to pitch up. The opposite occurs in a right turn and that is why she wants to pitch down when the tail rotor thrust increases. Just a theory...
This is an interesting problem I never quite expected the mSR X to have given fbl and all. I am guessing it is plain old asymmetry of lift exaggerated in an fp setting. Just a guess as I don't have one yet to mess around with.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:25 AM   #18
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Ive yet to have time to play with the rudder issues, Im good on the let yaw tho with radio adjustments.
One thing that makes me intrigued is why did the engineers use a servo setup thats front and left side placement? Mabey the only way they could get a FBL FP setup to work?
Also i could have sworn mine came with the links on the short balls, But me second one for parts came with them on the long balls on the swash. I do believe mines steadier on the short ones.

Does messing with the Gyro settings on the DX6i have any affect on the heli's gyro or it hard wired in and not changable?
I have shown to myself at least that center of gravity does affect wich cyclic needs applied when rudder is applied to the left. But i havent worked on that enough yet thanks to Christmas stinking dinner ill be up all night cooking
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:58 PM   #19
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I don't think it's asymmetry of lift, because it happens at very slow forward speeds or in a hover. Whatever it is, I'm starting to get used to it. The MIX function on DX6i helps somewhat, but you can get it set right for a slow speed turn and it's not right for a high speed turn. I may just learn the quirkiness and go from there. Despite this flaw, I'm amazed it flies as well as it does and I am not disappointed at all!
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Despite this flaw, I'm amazed it flies as well as it does and I am not disappointed at all
I hope i didnt come off as dissapointed or upset in any way, Matter of fact im in the hobby for the challenge. Some i learn and some i overcome, Others ive failed at.
My idea of indoor flight with the (Flying Blender) better known as the MCPX failed miserably for me, Mainly due to my lack of skills and also not the bext choice of heli for indoors. Its sitting untouched and fully modded waiting for outdoor flight this spring.
Im still new to heli's and only been flying a few months, But i dont just give up just because i failed. But i learned the mSR rather well.

What i like about the MSRX is its a mix of the mSR and MCPX in one package.
Small size and high power and no longer having to keep my mSR on a diet so it will even fly with a little pep in its step.
I throw large cells on the MSRX and it works the same, Mabey a little more stable and its reassuring to know i dont have to worry about how many grams an upgrade will slow me down.

Oh its a challenge to fly even weighted down with my big training cells of 240mAH Hyperions and kept at 75% throttle dual rates. Small enough its not intimidating and wont break everything in sight like the MCPX will. Durable as the mSR except blade grips but i expect sales of Micro Heli grips to go threw the roof.

Mine was well modded 24 hours after ownership even before i could even fly it well enough. But i knew what i did would only help, And i think most will follow soon also.
Basically a MSRX tail from Astroid parts extended 1" with solild CF rod to keep blade wash out of the tail and the KDBB tail blade on the stronger motor will hold it well while im making changes to the radio for better flight.

Lastly, I see people reccommending MSRX's to complete noobs to heli's. I keep my opnion to myself as my learning curve is lower and slower and some may be able to do it. I know there would be no way i could start with one and learn anything on it without destroying it. Matter of fact i bought a second MSRX as a parts heli since parts arent the easiest to get and a full supply cost so much i found it cheaper to buy the second one and sell the mainboard/servo's off. But i cant get myself to touch it with a screwdriver, It just sits there.

So mabey i kinda like it
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