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Old 02-10-2012, 10:49 AM   #21
abanihani
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I am going to through this in as I had similar problems despite all what you did, I put the whole head on a true balancer after balancing the blades and Wow totally unbalanced!! kept adding tiny amount of JP wild to the lighter blade holder in the buttom until it balanced, when everything dried I rebalanced and it was perfect, my vibes now are so small and i have been having healthy signals throughout my flights without an issue.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:00 AM   #22
galensk
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Hi,

Read the whole thread, ... Went through some vibe issues with my 400 also but managed to slove them by adjusting the tail boom which should be 90░ ( I made my own setuptool for that )

1.make shure you have good backlash between the maingear and tailgear.
2.level the boom ( like you did should be fine !!! )
3.check the tailgear bearing. If you hear a clicking sound by turning the tail with your hand replace tailgear bearings.

Hope you solve the issue soon...
/Kurt
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:25 PM   #23
Yoda DK
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Hi egaus

have you solved your problem? im fighting vibes on my 400se right now mainshaft and boom is 90degree. i used your card method i balanced the tail rotor and tail blades. can to much backlash cause vibes?

galensk: nice setup tool! sent one my way
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:41 AM   #24
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Yoda,

Too much backlash can cause vibes I believe. You don't want your mesh too tight.

I've balanced everything in the tail assembly, disassembled and reassembled it. I've got all new tail parts. I'm going to switch back to the stock tail case with new bearings next. I'll report back mid week. Let me know if you make any progress.

My tail is real smooth up until the last 5% of spool-up, then the vibes get real bad, loud.

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:55 AM   #25
Yoda DK
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egaus
same here it gets really loud and heli starts moving around on the tabel have you tried balancing tail rotor with tail blades on?

do you go to 100% wenn spooling it up?
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:06 PM   #26
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I've balanced two complete separate tail assemblies (hub/grips/blades) multiple times on a magnetic prop balancer. Assembly one uses CY CF blades, the other using Edge blades. Neither of which was balanced out of the box. I can affect the amplitude of the vibe by fiddling with the tape on the light blade - moving it closer or further away from the root. On mine, I get the best results (still awful though) with a small square, 1/2", of electrical tape placed as close to the root of the light blade as possible.

I'm thinking my tail vibe is an up and down vibe because the vertical tail fin is solid, while the horizontal one blurs up and down just when the RPM reaches target RPM at the very end of spool-up.

I'm at the point where if new bearings and going back to the stock tail case don't do the trick, the only thing left is to replace the frames, and I don't really see that doing much unless my frames somehow became untrue from my crash and result of removing/installing/loosening/tightening the tail so many times.

Just waiting now on delivery of new stock tail parts.

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:21 PM   #27
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i just don't get it.if the frames isn't broken you shouldn't have to replace them.
my logo is new with one flight on it. and i still get huge vibes. i don't want to replace every thing on it.i shouldn't have to because its new,and never been in a crash. getting real tired of this heli
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #28
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Yeah. I agree about the frames. I think mine had the same problem before my crash, I just didn't notice it as it flew great about 5 times or so until my crash, which was most likely a direct result of extreme vibrations. (From the log file).

If yours is new and you are having the same problem, then I don't know what to say.

One thing I am thinking is to try (yet another) main gear. Perhaps the main gear is messed up from my over tightening the one-way on to it. I have a tendency to have a heavy hand. I already replaced the main gear once with same result so I think I am grasping at straws here.

e

Check this: http://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.ph...5150#msg-55150
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #29
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Mikado plastic does not get skewed by overtighting one-way etc, absolutely ZERO need to replace a main gear or frames.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #30
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Thanks MrMrel. That's what I thought. Desperate measures...

I there a method to deduce whether or not the vibration is a result of the front tail gear mesh or something in the aft part of the tail?

Thanks,

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #31
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Hi again,

Have you checked the belt on missing teeth ? Tail gear and tailgear bearings ?

/Kurt
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #32
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The bearings I have are all new, front and back using a never flown CF tail. Belt has no missing teeth, 460XL. Everything on my tail front and back is new.

Yoda sounds like he is working on a new helicopter and having similar problems.

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #33
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One thing I also did was changing my pionion to NEW stock Mikado. Looks like the direct drive pinion / maingear / tailgear is very sensitive to correct backlash. Also where you mount the MiniV is crucial. I ended up with my miniV below. Now I use a full size VBAR with the sensor below and I'm fine on vibes. As you almost changed the whole heli it looks like we have to find the solution in setup. It appears to me you're a experienced builder and do your setups with care.
Again to double check, If you have the boom level...does it stay level after fastening the bolds in the tailbox ? Sometimes the bolds have been pressed in the frame and don't hold their position. so level, spoolup a few times and check level and bold tension. If they're loose the boom has moved...

/good luck
/Kurt
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:38 PM   #34
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New pinion, 17T. Motor is 1400KV Mini Pyro 20-08, throttle curve is at 52% using Kontronik Jive 80.

It is difficult to get the tail to lock in just right and I feel that my mesh is a little tight. It requires a firm extra hand on the boom to get it to stay at 90 because the 8 bolts have left noticeable indentations in the frames, that's why I was thinking new frames.

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egaus View Post
It is difficult to get the tail to lock in just right and I feel that my mesh is a little tight. It requires a firm extra hand on the boom to get it to stay at 90 because the 8 bolts have left noticeable indentations in the frames, that's why I was thinking new frames.

e
I've done that too, two options either "rig" new place of the shims so they seat in a new position, or simply put use different shape/size shims, I made some oval ones out of a little bigger which I cut down a little.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:27 PM   #36
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Not sure what you mean by shims.The instructions do not picture any. I tried to find some washers that would fit into each of the 8 holes, with no luck. I guess I could cut/file some down. Is this what you mean?

e
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:30 PM   #37
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Yes, anything to change the "footprint" of the head of the screw.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:45 PM   #38
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I'm measuring 0.0 on the main shaft, 90 (spot on) on the boom and 90 on the underside of the main gear as well at 90 on top of the motor. Seems pretty squared up to me.

My backlash is set with just a tiny bit of wiggle, motor to main gear and main gear to front tail pulley gear.

Gonna put this aside now and go fly. Nice day here in the Pacific Northwest.

e
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:35 AM   #39
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i just ordered the dubro tru-spin balancer.wenn it gets here i'll balance everything again.
just checked the mainshaft and tail bom. they are 90 degree. then i'll make shims like Mr mel say. so that i'm sure it stays in place.
i've got a feling that it might be my edge blades there is something wrong with.
can a to loose or to tight belt cause vibes to?

i have the fullzise v-bar. so my vibes must be really bad since it reads them
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:55 AM   #40
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Sounds to me like your mechanical setup might not be the problem. Perhaps there is just excessive vibration being transferred to the v-bar unit?

I have a black full size v-bar on my 400 with the sensor at the bottom next to the tail servo. I could never get the vibration under 1000 no matter what i tried, the v-bar also used to take forever to initialise and the heli used to be a pig to fly.

After going through many of the same exercises mentioned in this thread i decided to change the black v-bar sensor for a blue line one. What a difference!!! My vibration issues disappeared instantly and the heli flies like a dream now. Not saying the issues you guys are having are exactly the same, but perhaps the issue is v-bar related in some way.

Placing a mini v-bar above the tail boom is probably not a good idea as the vibes are worst there. Perhaps try moving the v-bar down to the bottom of the frame, change the way it is mounted, try different tape, check that the wires are not inadvertently transferring vibration to the v-bar, make sure the v-bar unit is not touching the frame etc...

Just my two cents worth, it just seems to me like perhaps the problem is not mechanical.
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