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Old 02-26-2012, 10:01 AM   #61
goready
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Give us your honest opinion on difference flight characteristic between this two.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:18 PM   #62
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As HeliG has pointed out the maiden was uneventful!! Personally having build both, I am still awestruck by the fit and finish of a TDR, the Goblin has novel design ideaqs that seems to work really well. The parts fit really well, but on some of the items the finish lacks a bit.

Flying characteristics is a bit early to tell, but with the 690mm blades at a HS of 2150rpm the collective response is very aggressive. I am sure if one has to get the TDR to the same HS you will get a similar response. The VBar is a great leveller of performance and at the moment the Goblin still needs a bit of tweaking but we shall get there!! The supplied SAB blades seems to really fly well and although there are rough spots in the finish, they were perfectly balanced and track well.

The Scorpion 4525LE motor on the Goblin is a perfect match, lots of grunt and nearly unboggable with the HeliJive in governor mode.

Personally I still prefer the TDR, but we have a new kid on the block and let's see where this one is going......
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:44 AM   #63
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Thanks.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:17 PM   #64
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Waiting of the outcome of this.

Will it be something that flies nice similar to a TDR, but with quick parts availability and at a price point for the general public?

Game changer?

Gonna be an interesting summer, and a VERY interesting IRCHA.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:16 AM   #65
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The Goblin will have to prove what SAB promised. Just taking the design it's a better smack machine and spec for high power.
The main thing I liked about my TDR was how smooth it flies and of course the wide range of possible RPM. Just taking the head design that's not something the Goblin seams to be build for...
For myself, the Goblin seams to be a good fit. But for the typical Henseleit pilot... I don't think a Goblin is the right machine.
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:49 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edhall View Post
Waiting of the outcome of this.

Will it be something that flies nice similar to a TDR, but with quick parts availability and at a price point for the general public?

Game changer?

Gonna be an interesting summer, and a VERY interesting IRCHA.
Still too early to say. With the VBar technology you can make machines fly very similar, but what does that prove?

If you like smack, you will also need to like very regular maintenance, no matter what heli you use. Goblin suggests replacing the belt every 100 flights and there will probably be more to come in keeping the heli well maintained. Vinger also experienced a crack in the tail boom (started at the rear) after about 7 flights which we are getting Goblin's opinion on.

Price point is similar to the TDR if you use similar electronics, so not much difference there. Availability of parts depends on where you are, so right now for us it means 2 weeks wait for TDR but with local Goblin distributor if will probably be a day or two.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:04 AM   #67
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Funny thing I just read yesterday in an Align Trex 700 manual... they suggest a maintenance cycle of 10 flights for their thrust bearings in their V2 head and less cycles if you prefer "higher" a headspeed
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:12 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofmaya View Post
Funny thing I just read yesterday in an Align Trex 700 manual... they suggest a maintenance cycle of 10 flights for their thrust bearings in their V2 head and less cycles if you prefer "higher" a headspeed
-Klaus
I guess if you follow Jan's instructions and don't lock tite the feathering shaft bolts, and just take them apart regularly then you will always know they are tight

I've noticed that U-76 seems to hang around a while in the thrust bearings. I'm sure head speed plays a large part in this.

Still 100 flights to replace the belt... I wonder if they are thinking about people running 4535's and 770 blades. At a high headspeed that is probably a LOT of force.

Compare swinging 770's near 2,000 rpm and 710's at 1400.
I imagine you are using 3/1 power in that comparison.
If 1400 - 1900 doubles the power on 710's.
The extra 60mm and high head speed is sure to add a significant amount of additional
drag.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:33 PM   #69
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I'd think (I am no engineer just common sense), that we will be looking at 20-30 smack flights at high head speed/big power system, then bearings, belt, maybe main gear, dampeners and other usual stuff will have to be replaced on Goblin.
We will see how it goes. At first, I thought it was ugly, but it kind of grew on me.. may be my next
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:59 AM   #70
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Same with the TDR, its looks grew on me. Now I think it's the most beautiful heli in the planet!

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Old 03-02-2012, 05:45 AM   #71
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Im building a goblin now. It seems like align quality but tdr sorta design features. What i mean is remember when the tdr came out there was so many cool things that jan thought of.

Cant beat tdr quality. I wish jan did a le redesign of the tdr or something.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:36 AM   #72
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I guess the crave for another heli is just a kind of withdrawal syndrome caused by our heli addiction and not evidence of a necessary redesign of the TDR (Exceptions prove the rule).

I'm confident that Jan will come out with something new as soon as he sees room for any noteworthy improvement

That being said, I'm already very exited about the new Speed-edition of the TDR and the changes it will incorporate.

But Jan has already made clear that it will be a purely speed dedicated machine and no allround-talent any more.

Cheers, Daniel
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:43 AM   #73
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I just wonder if this is a fundamental design philosophy issue where the TDR is geared specifically to be efficient, elegant smooth and fast.

The Goblin has a COMPLETELY different design philosophy. It looks like a brute by comparison.

It has two design missions.

1. Everything is designed to get the vertical CG even with the boom.
  • The servos are horizontal to move them closer to the blades.
  • The motor and ESC are up higher
  • The Batteries actually fit in at an angle to help bring the CG up.
2. It is designed to handle massive power.
  • It uses big chunks of aluminum for the drive train
  • It uses belts that can handle massive torque
Everything about it screams beefy and powerful and purpose built to do smack 3D.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:48 AM   #74
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And still, the Goblin may not exceed the flying characteristics of the TDR, the feel.
HC will tell us, but i was not "impressed" by the Goblin YT videos as i was and still I am with the TDR (TimoW).
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:56 AM   #75
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Jan is known to love fast helis He basically introduced and established heli speed flying as alternative flying style besides smack style.
IMHO, the faible for efficient flying machines is just part of engineering - done the right way (some call it "german style").
So yes, I would say the fundamental design philosophy indeed is a different one.
And always remember that the incredible power of today's electric drives were just unimaginably at the time the TDR was born...
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:55 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
Im building a goblin now. It seems like align quality but tdr sorta design features. What i mean is remember when the tdr came out there was so many cool things that jan thought of.

Cant beat tdr quality. I wish jan did a le redesign of the tdr or something.
Seems we're not alone...

http://www.goblin-helicopter.com/for...-sometimes-bad

SAB informed our local dealer that the quality issues on our demo Goblin was limited to the demo kit...looks like they are wrong. Apart from the quality issues the parts did fit very well. Interestingly enough we compared the Goblin swash finish to that of a Trex500...theTrex's was better. Not good for a $1,000 price tag.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:56 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicraze View Post
Im building a goblin now. It seems like align quality but tdr sorta design features. What i mean is remember when the tdr came out there was so many cool things that jan thought of.

Cant beat tdr quality. I wish jan did a le redesign of the tdr or something.
You mean more like Outrage quality
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:07 PM   #78
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Man, I really hope they can pull it together, I was really starting to like the gobbler.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #79
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Quality... maybe the problem is: it is not made in Germany?
I hope they will make it better, what is a shame is missing (or double) parts. Yes, the production is in beginning, but everything should be perfect from the start, else they will not make a good name in the rough competition.
I hope the material is better then Align, if the surface quality is not...
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:35 PM   #80
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After seeing one this week, I'm very glad I cancelled my Goblin order... Just the paint job on the boom alone looked like some 8 year old kid with a can of spray paint did the work.

Wait a second... That might be the truth.
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