which is better to practice on N or E , FBL or FB ? - Page 3

Andy.Kim · 02-01-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

i stand by the fact that if you think you should learn with with a fly bar first you take your HH gyros off and only fly rate mode from now on HH gyros are no different
would you tell a noob they have to learn in rate mode?

My first heli had a piezo rate mode gyro.

I don't exactly agree with your analogy of rate mode gyros and flybars but it's ok. You don't have to agree with me and I don't need you to see it my way. Calling BS on me was rather rude and inappropriate. I think some of the things I have to say are worth listening to but I'm the type to say "I don't know" if I really don't know rather than pretending to know.

But hey, what do I know?... This is me with a FLYBAR after 1.5 years in the hobby

YouTube

flyinghigh450 · 02-01-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

i stand by the fact that if you think you should learn with with a fly bar first you take your HH gyros off and only fly rate mode from now on HH gyros are no different
would you tell a noob they have to learn in rate mode?

I don't understand why people try useing tail gyro's to make a point.The tail has nothing what so ever to do with the head so it's pointless saying fly the tail in rate mode or take the gyro off..The flybar isn't a gyro,it's a rod with paddles on it being pushed/pulled by rods .
Before someone come's back and say's the flybar is a gyro or whatever,tell me how to put it in rate mode or heading hold

.All you can do is adjust servo travel and nothing more ..
Your flybar experience is with a Eflight heli.Sorry but that's why you had a bad experience.

flyinghigh450 · 02-01-2012, 10:57 PM

BTW,
Not being mean or anything by saying that about the Eflight flybar heli you had.I owned a few myself and they have more slop than my flying lol..

Elios000 · 02-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinghigh450

I don't understand why people try useing tail gyro's to make a point.The tail has nothing what so ever to do with the head so it's pointless saying fly the tail in rate mode or take the gyro off..The flybar isn't a gyro,it's a rod with paddles on it being pushed/pulled by rods .
Before someone come's back and say's the flybar is a gyro or whatever,tell me how to put it in rate mode or heading hold

.All you can do is adjust servo travel and nothing more ..
Your flybar experience is with a Eflight heli.Sorry but that's why you had a bad experience.

it IS a gyro and its ALWAYS in rate mode that work? it doesnt have to have a HH mode there are gyros out there that are rate only
think about how the flybar works its a mechanical rate gyro

Mixmaster Pilot · 02-02-2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

it IS a gyro and its ALWAYS in rate mode that work? it doesnt have to have a HH mode there are gyros out there that are rate only
think about how the flybar works its a mechanical rate gyro

Oh oh, I wonder if you will ignite a "stab bars are not gyroscopes" discussion!

Elios000 · 02-02-2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Pilot

Oh oh, I wonder if you will ignite a "stab bars are not gyroscopes" discussion!

if you want to get technical our "gyros" arnt really gyros but accelerometers lol so really other then old rate gyros from the late 80's early 90's we havent been using real gyros for years

Mixmaster Pilot · 02-02-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

if you want to get technical our "gyros" arnt really gyros but accelerometers lol so really other then old rate gyros from the late 80's early 90's we havent been using real gyros for years

I'm staying out of it

Andy.Kim · 02-02-2012, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Pilot

I'm staying out of it

+1.

edit: This reminds me of an old saying. "Never argue with a fool. People may not know the difference."

magbarn · 02-02-2012, 02:33 AM

Went from hovering my MCPx in wind to flying circuits and doing loops/rolls and now inverted flight on my 700E without really learning to fly flybar. (My B450 doesn't really count as I never really hovered well with it before I crashed and retired it as I didn't want to rebuild that complex head) FB is old school and unnecessary for new pilots.

Geffect · 02-02-2012, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magbarn

FB is old school and unnecessary for new pilots.

+1.

JUst like with cars, if you have no reason to drive a manual car there is no need to learn how to drive one.. Same applies to FB/FBL helis. If you do get the urge to try a FB after flying a FBL for ages its not going to be a big deal you will still be able to fly it.

flyinghigh450 · 02-02-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

it IS a gyro and its ALWAYS in rate mode that work? it doesnt have to have a HH mode there are gyros out there that are rate only
think about how the flybar works its a mechanical rate gyro

Well a gyro in rate mode will still correct when you let go of the stick's,a flybar doesn't .

A FBL unit has 3 built in rate mode gyro's for the head,that's why it helps correct.

A Tail gyro had Rate and heading hold.Rate mode help's correct and heading hold doesn't move until you move it.

A flybar doesn't have anything but your finger's and the pilot does every bit of the correcting.So no,it's not a gyro..It doesn't help correct like rate mode and it doesn't 100% correct like heading hold.

snjbird · 02-02-2012, 08:47 AM

Once a guy has learned how to hover and not crash every time they takeoff, then I am going to say that cheap nitro will be a great way to get FT.

Everyone is different, and we all have our opinions, FB, FBL is a debate that will rage for the ages. Some clear pluses to FBL, yes they are a bit easier to learn on, because they react, more linear to your input, yes the parts count goes down, read this as less mechanical failures! Con... they cost more, they allow more energy to transfer into the head on crashes.

Elios000 · 02-02-2012, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinghigh450

Well a gyro in rate mode will still correct when you let go of the stick's,a flybar doesn't .

A FBL unit has 3 built in rate mode gyro's for the head,that's why it helps correct.

A Tail gyro had Rate and heading hold.Rate mode help's correct and heading hold doesn't move until you move it.

A flybar doesn't have anything but your finger's and the pilot does every bit of the correcting.So no,it's not a gyro..It doesn't help correct like rate mode and it doesn't 100% correct like heading hold.

wow your soo off its not even funny

what do you think the flybar does then? its not on there for looks
it does the same thing a rate gyro does

snjbird · 02-02-2012, 10:06 AM

Yes this conversation has lot's of laughs... Funny play on words, the fact that a modern "gyro" has no gyro in it at all, in fact it has nothing mechanical in it either!

Early two axis gyro! this one is the brain child of Jimmy Doolittle

where is the "gyro in there?

flyinghigh450 · 02-02-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elios000

wow your soo off its not even funny

what do you think the flybar does then? its not on there for looks
it does the same thing a rate gyro does

It's ok,later..

Big Fil · 02-02-2012, 10:30 AM

A flybar is very much a mechanical gyro. To say it doesn't make any corrections is not a true statement. It does do some corrections. If you, would like to test it out for yourself fly a helicopter with no flybar or electronic flybarless system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope

magbarn · 02-02-2012, 10:40 AM

One more thing I didn't comment on, I would recommend an electric for a beginner. UNLESS you have prior nitro experience, engine tuning & clutch setup is not for newbs unless there's someone at the field willing to put the time in teaching those skills. It's much easier to teach somebody not to discharge their lipos below 80% on the web, it's another to teach someone how to set their mixing screws on the carb. Not in helis, but I've seen too many newbs fry $300-$500 nitro motors on their first few tanks due to too lean settings.

flynot2000 · 02-02-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snjbird

where is the "gyro in there?

The gyro is in those little tin cans, 3 of them in fact, and really what they are are little mem's sensors that detect acceleration. Think little swaying bridge, which as it sways changes it's electrical properties, so it is indeed mechanical too, but with an electrical component also.

snjbird · 02-02-2012, 01:50 PM

Gyros spin! SMM does not spin, hence there is NO GYRO. Yes they call them gyroscopes, because of the nature of what they do, but there is no spinning gyroscope inside them...

flynot2000 · 02-02-2012, 02:24 PM

and you think that all modern gyroscopes must spin? Here ya go luddite

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/03/sc...pagewanted=all

02-01-2012, 10:57 PM	#43
flyinghigh450 Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Shelby Twp,Mi	BTW, Not being mean or anything by saying that about the Eflight flybar heli you had.I owned a few myself and they have more slop than my flying lol.. __________________ Team Align

02-02-2012, 02:33 AM	#49
magbarn Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southern CA	Went from hovering my MCPx in wind to flying circuits and doing loops/rolls and now inverted flight on my 700E without really learning to fly flybar. (My B450 doesn't really count as I never really hovered well with it before I crashed and retired it as I didn't want to rebuild that complex head) FB is old school and unnecessary for new pilots. __________________ Blade 4503D, MCP-x, MSRx, MCX2 Dx8 Align T-rex 450 BeastX FBL T-rex 500EFL I V-bar mini T-rex 500EFL II BeastX T-rex 600EFL V-bar T-rex 700E V-Bar

02-02-2012, 08:47 AM	#52
snjbird Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL USA	Once a guy has learned how to hover and not crash every time they takeoff, then I am going to say that cheap nitro will be a great way to get FT. Everyone is different, and we all have our opinions, FB, FBL is a debate that will rage for the ages. Some clear pluses to FBL, yes they are a bit easier to learn on, because they react, more linear to your input, yes the parts count goes down, read this as less mechanical failures! Con... they cost more, they allow more energy to transfer into the head on crashes. __________________ No Plankers were injured in the making of this post! TOY BOX contents Mcp x, 450 Pro VBar, 500 VBar, 12S 600CF VBar... Mikado Logo 6003D VBar Proudly flying KBDD, MKS, Castle, Scorpion and some planks too To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by snjbird; 02-02-2012 at 09:58 AM..

02-02-2012, 10:06 AM	#54
snjbird Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL USA	Yes this conversation has lot's of laughs... Funny play on words, the fact that a modern "gyro" has no gyro in it at all, in fact it has nothing mechanical in it either! Early two axis gyro! this one is the brain child of Jimmy Doolittle where is the "gyro in there? __________________ No Plankers were injured in the making of this post! TOY BOX contents Mcp x, 450 Pro VBar, 500 VBar, 12S 600CF VBar... Mikado Logo 6003D VBar Proudly flying KBDD, MKS, Castle, Scorpion and some planks too To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-02-2012, 10:30 AM	#56
Big Fil Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Santa Rosa, CA	A flybar is very much a mechanical gyro. To say it doesn't make any corrections is not a true statement. It does do some corrections. If you, would like to test it out for yourself fly a helicopter with no flybar or electronic flybarless system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope __________________ Mikado Model Helicopters Edge Blades

02-02-2012, 10:40 AM	#57
magbarn Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Southern CA	One more thing I didn't comment on, I would recommend an electric for a beginner. UNLESS you have prior nitro experience, engine tuning & clutch setup is not for newbs unless there's someone at the field willing to put the time in teaching those skills. It's much easier to teach somebody not to discharge their lipos below 80% on the web, it's another to teach someone how to set their mixing screws on the carb. Not in helis, but I've seen too many newbs fry $300-$500 nitro motors on their first few tanks due to too lean settings. __________________ Blade 4503D, MCP-x, MSRx, MCX2 Dx8 Align T-rex 450 BeastX FBL T-rex 500EFL I V-bar mini T-rex 500EFL II BeastX T-rex 600EFL V-bar T-rex 700E V-Bar

02-02-2012, 01:50 PM	#59
snjbird Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kissimmee, FL USA	Gyros spin! SMM does not spin, hence there is NO GYRO. Yes they call them gyroscopes, because of the nature of what they do, but there is no spinning gyroscope inside them... __________________ No Plankers were injured in the making of this post! TOY BOX contents Mcp x, 450 Pro VBar, 500 VBar, 12S 600CF VBar... Mikado Logo 6003D VBar Proudly flying KBDD, MKS, Castle, Scorpion and some planks too To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-02-2012, 02:24 PM	#60
flynot2000 Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Phoenix, Az	and you think that all modern gyroscopes must spin? Here ya go luddite http://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/03/sc...pagewanted=all __________________ Trex 500 EFL PRO / PRÔTOS 500 CF / Trex 450 Pro V2 BeastX / mCPx / JR11x

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