Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > Flight Stabilization


Flight Stabilization Flight Stabilization


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #1
mverhorst
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default Swash not level after traveladjust

Dear All,

I've recently, this fall, bougth a KDS450C with the flymentor already installed at the shop and flew it, as it was, a couple of times till the wheater turned for the worse. The heli felt good at first but after flying the sim it felt a little distant and didn't like left aileron.

So that in mind I went and registered on this forum and found that the FM does not like a lot of TX trim. When I went over to my stock KDS K-7X II TX I found that the aileron and elevator trim where all over the place.

So I decided to watch Finless his video's and do the head setup myself to get rid of all the TX trim and get all sorted properly.

Started out by resetting my TX as Ivor wrote in his FM setup and started working it out. I leveled the swash with a leveler using the neutrals and adjusting the links
As I was going allong I found that I am unable to get rid of any CCPM interactions and that already got me ticked off. But the biggest problem was yet to come.

As the last step in setting up the head is adjusting the pitch levels using the traveladjust sliders. I found that all is well after adjusting the pitch and elevator travel but found that the swash is no longer level at mid stick after adjusting the aileron travel. I've set it back to 100% and the swash levels again.

If i increase the percent the swash moves in a certain direction and if a decrease the percent the swash moves in the opposite direction. The swash isn't level anymore in the aileron direction but is fine for elevator. I'm using N290 metal gear digital servo's for the swash.

The goal is to take of and land using the FM and switch it off in the air to practice hoovering without aid. So if the swash isn't level the FM will sort that out but the heli will go mad as soon I turn it off.

Does anyone has a idea what's wrong as I'm realy starting to think the FM does more damage then good.

Many thanks for thinking along.

Menno
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 08:30 AM   #2
pril250
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,772
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, Uk
Default

For a proper setting up of a heli you will need first to revert to a direct setup with FM completely out of play and all three cyclic servos connected directly to the rx and 120 deg swash mix enabled on the tx. Then all trims and subtrims set to zero and all travel adjusts to 100%. You should start with mixes set to around 60% and then set those for correct pitch ranges. Your pitch curve should also be set to linear ie 0,25,50,75,100 with zero pitch at mid collective.

Once you got the swash level and all pitches zeroed at mid stick with symmetrical range you can change the tx to single servo operation, reconnect FM and work with the naturals an travel to get it setup without having to modify any links.

Hope this helps.
__________________
T-Rex600-ICE100,WR10ABEC,Scorp4025-1100+17T,Kasama head,QUK Swash CNC Tail,G-Force blocks,3152,DS760+BLS251,DX7+AR7000,FM.
Blade400
-CC ICE50,Scorp2221-8+12T,Sonix Head&Tail,5A BEC,HS65HB,Quark+3500G,AR7000,Align Carbon blades,TRex500 Skids,Flymentor.
pril250 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 10:26 AM   #3
mverhorst
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Pril thank you for your answer.

For my understanding:

Set-up the heli like you normaly whould, all level at 0 pitch and all servo's at 90 without the FM connected .

Reconnect the FM and change to TX to single servo, do I need to set the mixes on the TX back to 100% as the KDS TX still ables me to set mixes in single servo mode. Now I need to use the neutrals of the FM to get the servo's back to 90 ending up where I left the swash without the FM connected. After that I need to use the travels to set the amount of pitch for collective, aileron and elevator.

Am I correct as if I say that the travels on the FM have the same functions as the mixes in a TX at 120 CCPM mode?

I have been trying different things and found that if I decrease the mix on the TX the amount of pitch reduces but the swash remains level. If i set the mix on the TX back to 100 and set the travel to the same amount as the TX the swash isn't level.

It seems that changing the travel for aileron makes a mess of the neutral for aileron.

Any pointers on these manners?

Many thanks as I'm really starting to think I'm better of without the FM and learn how te fly CP heli's the hard way....

Kind regards,

Menno
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #4
Ivor Hill
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

As Pril has said the heli should be set up without fm including travels, you then switch the Tx to single servo. This will disable the mixing on your TX and after fitting FM you should not go back and adjust travels in the TX. Fitting FM will change the setting a little and you correct them useing the software as explained in the sticky at the top of the section.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 04:24 AM   #5
mverhorst
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Dear Ivor,

Thanx your tour help. I'v set the travels on my Tx back to a 100% and think that there's my problem.

Will go over the entire setup with the servo's connected to my Rx and keep the travels in my Tx after connecting the FM back up.

I do think it's a flaw in the FM that you are unable to set the heli up correct with the FM connected. This means that after a servo replacement or a bent link you will be plugging wires, setting up your Tx and setting up your FM...

Anyway,

Thank you both for your help and hope not to need the FM anymore soon.

Regards,

Menno

Last edited by mverhorst; 02-12-2012 at 06:39 AM..
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 07:45 AM   #6
pril250
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,772
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, Uk
Default

There is no such flaw actually. If you got everything setup right and need to replace a servo you don't need to go through the entire setup procedure, normally will require none to a small tweak in Helibal.

Also it is possible to setup a heli with FM installed if you are experienced enough, I have done so a few times. For the sake of simplicity and peace of mind it is recommended for novices to first setup the heli before installing FM.
__________________
T-Rex600-ICE100,WR10ABEC,Scorp4025-1100+17T,Kasama head,QUK Swash CNC Tail,G-Force blocks,3152,DS760+BLS251,DX7+AR7000,FM.
Blade400
-CC ICE50,Scorp2221-8+12T,Sonix Head&Tail,5A BEC,HS65HB,Quark+3500G,AR7000,Align Carbon blades,TRex500 Skids,Flymentor.
pril250 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 08:20 AM   #7
Ivor Hill
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

If the heli is set up correctly before fitting FM it would still be correct if you ever remove fm. However if you want to set the heli up from scratch with FM connected then you can but it complicates things and if in the future you decide to remove FM you will have to set the heli up again.
The makers of any flight stabilization system assumes that the heli is set up correctly before there system is fitted, if you then remove there system the heli will still be set up and flyable with some adjustments to the tx.
I do not understand your comments about the problems you will have if you bend a rod or damage a servo, it is not a problem.
Like a lot of thing in life some find these systems hard to set up and others easy, once you get your head around the programme it becomes easy and set up takes only a few minute's provided the heli was set up correctly in the first place.
Myself and a lot of others are very happy with FM but it's not perfect and some are not happy with it and have removed it is only suitable for normal flying, it but in order to evaluate it the heli,tx and fm must be set up correctly.
The best advice I can give you is to remove fm and set you heli and tx up following the excellent video's provided on this site by Finless bob. Then fit FM and follow the set up sticky at the top of the section.
Your swash mixes set at 100% does not sound correct,they should be set useing a pitch gauge and then left alone.
Endpoint travels should be set back to 100% when you fit FM as explained in the sticky. Good luck
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 03:59 PM   #8
mverhorst
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Thanks both of you for your help.

Will try to give it a go this weekend as the dally duty calls.

I'll get back to you.

Regards,

Menno
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 03:50 PM   #9
mverhorst
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Dear All,

I've got things as good as it gets. Still not happy with the way the FM messes with the leveling of the swash and CCPM interaction.

Have to give it a rest, learn how to fly without any aid and then get rid of the FM.

Have a good one and as Pinion says:

Blue Skies!
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #10
pril250
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,772
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London, Uk
Default

I must say that I have it on two of my helis and had no occasion to experience any adverse effects on the swash or CCPM interaction unless of course I am missing something.
__________________
T-Rex600-ICE100,WR10ABEC,Scorp4025-1100+17T,Kasama head,QUK Swash CNC Tail,G-Force blocks,3152,DS760+BLS251,DX7+AR7000,FM.
Blade400
-CC ICE50,Scorp2221-8+12T,Sonix Head&Tail,5A BEC,HS65HB,Quark+3500G,AR7000,Align Carbon blades,TRex500 Skids,Flymentor.
pril250 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2012, 02:39 AM   #11
mverhorst
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Netherlands
Default

Hey,

Took the heli out for a spin, flown about 10 packs and must say was kinda nice. It responded much beter with the new set-up and was a lot of fun. Even turned the FM of and was able to hoover for a couple of minutes without much efford, very stable bird now.

In the end the FM is better than a thought and I've done a better job setting it up then aspected.

Thanx for your help and it time to fly the crab out of my KDS and start learning.

Menno
mverhorst is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 04:56 PM   #12
338federal
Registered Users
 
Posts: 264
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: sweden
Default

Hi! I have Align 480 sport with flymentor. Everything is leveled to 99,9% accurate. Its drifting backwards and little right. How many clicks tx trim can i use? I have now 6 click forward and 3 click left. It flies almost 100 handsoff.
338federal is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 06:13 PM   #13
Ivor Hill
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Probably ok but you should realy
transfer the number of clicks to the aileron and elevator neutrals in helibal.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 12:20 AM   #14
338federal
Registered Users
 
Posts: 264
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: sweden
Default

Hi Ivor! This maybe OT. How do i transfer the clicks in helibal? Im gonna tried today with that. I have only use the programming box. Have a oldie computer with windows xp and maybe the helibal is working on that. The new one is with windows7. Never tried the helibal.
Thanks for your answer Ivor.
338federal is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 01:59 PM   #15
Ivor Hill
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Have not used the hand held controller but you need to find servo neutrals on it.
First elevator, note the number on the slider and then move it and you will see the swash move note the direction it moves. You know that you need to tip the swash forward 6 clicks so zero the TX trim and add or subtract 6 to or from the number on the slider to tip the swash forward. Play with it and you will see how it works.
Then do the same with aileron but this time only 3 clicks.
Hope this makes sence.
Flymentor does not like TX trim but 2-3 click is ok.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 05:44 PM   #16
338federal
Registered Users
 
Posts: 264
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: sweden
Default

Thanks Ivor! It flies like a dream now. It drifts little to the left. I give little right aileron. Flies to the right and slowly its drifting to left. Not bad at all. One point more its drifting slowly to the right. Not tried trim yet. All at zero. More flight hours tomorrow. Here in sweden the clock is 00.41 and i think im gone take my T-rex for a spin We have midnight sun. 24h bright day in 6 weeks
338federal is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 06:42 PM   #17
Ivor Hill
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

You are very welcome Have fun.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > Flight Stabilization


Flight Stabilization Flight Stabilization

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com