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Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-03-2012, 05:26 PM   #1
DesJardins
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Default What did you do to your Blade 450X today?

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Old 03-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #2
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I mounted Align 325D Carbons and White Pro Tail Blades just because I wanted to get everyone going. Then I flew 2 packs in 20+ mph gusting winds saying to myself "this really isn't a good idea". I managed to keep it in one piece and was quite suprised as to how crisp and solid the tail was given the cheap tail servo....
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:39 PM   #3
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Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
David
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dribbe View Post
Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
David
Do you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Being View Post
Do you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips.
If you want quality CF's go Thunder Power as they come with perfect shims.

Back on topic, let's see & hear about these 450X's with goodies !
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mtuccio View Post
I mounted Align 325D Carbons and White Pro Tail Blades just because I wanted to get everyone going. Then I flew 2 packs in 20+ mph gusting winds saying to myself "this really isn't a good idea". I managed to keep it in one piece and was quite suprised as to how crisp and solid the tail was given the cheap tail servo....
Hey just a heads up, that tail servo is actual extremely good, check the specs. It inexpensive but hard to beat. I actually put HS 5065MG on cyclic and left the DS76T on tail cause it that good. I do have a spare set of gears for it just in case.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DoctorJ View Post
Hey just a heads up, that tail servo is actual extremely good, check the specs. It inexpensive but hard to beat. I actually put HS 5065MG on cyclic and left the DS76T on tail cause it that good. I do have a spare set of gears for it just in case.
+1

It doesn't even seem real how fast the thing is!
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:18 PM   #8
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The stock tail servo doesn't compare to the HSG-5084 when it comes to piro speed and hold when you let go of the stick. It's specs are faster but that's all that's faster about it. Of course this needs to be taken in context with the gyro which I'm basing my claims on, the stock G210.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Being View Post
The stock tail servo doesn't compare to the HSG-5084 when it comes to piro speed and hold when you let go of the stick. It's specs are faster but that's all that's faster about it. Of course this needs to be taken in context with the gyro which I'm basing my claims on, the stock G210.
The stock servo has a speed of 0.03 sec/60 degrees while the HSG-5084 has a speed of 0.07

The stock servo weighs 7.6 grams while the HSG-5084 weighs 21.9 grams. Almost three times as much.

The stock servo costs $18.99 while the HSG-5084 costs $39.99

The stock servo has 11 ounces of torque while the HSG-5084 has 21.


The stock servos works just fine in this heli. Look at the promo videos. If you guys want to spend the money to upgrade to heavier more expensive servos be my guest but unless you are looking for crash durability there is no need to.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Being View Post
Do you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips.
....

Last edited by David Eichstedt; 03-03-2012 at 11:36 PM.. Reason: I Re-read my post...answered the wrong question.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:40 PM   #11
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The stock servo has a speed of 0.03 sec/60 degrees while the HSG-5084 has a speed of 0.07
The stock servo has 11 ounces of torque while the HSG-5084 has 21.
I guess I could rest my case on this note... servo speed isn't as important as torque. I have a B450 all stock and a B450 with the Hitec tail servo. The Hitec heli piros are much faster with crisper holds when you let go of the stick than the stock servo.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Eichstedt View Post
....
I don't know how to interpret that ellipse.

Maybe I am misinterpreting it but that sort of looks like a smart comment. Apologies in advance if it isn't but it seems that way. And to be honest, it galls me.

So... here goes...

<rant>
When I ordered my first pair of flybarred CFs, I though I'd go Blade, yes. They made this heli, they should fit. I ordered them. They arrived. They didnt' fit. I found out I had to shim the darn things. I was lucky I had a HW kit at the time.

Mikel later comes out and apologises - and promises the blades will now ship with shims. Good on him. I liked that. Honesty, admitting a mistake.

However...

I called our our sole appointed blade distributor after that - you know who they are or can find out, Dave. As of prior to the new year they still were not shipping them with shims. I understand our kiwi buddy 2cants recently fond out those CF's in our region are still not shipping with shims. I don't know how the rest of you stateside are doing.

Do you realize your blades are not competive compared to aligns we can get for less than half the price and are arguably better balanced from the word go? Do you realize for about 10 bucks more, I get SABs?

Then... we have the aluminium tail bling stuff... i.e. the aluminium tail case bling stuff that don't fit the stock plastic tail. Did anyone tell us that was the case? No.. ho.. ho.. we gotta get the CF tails. What about the CF horizontal stabilisers? Or look.. if we got the formal blade CF tail/stabilisers, and had stock plastic mounts, what then? Did ANY of you tell us about the incompatibility?

Now the aluminium grips. What's the deal with that? What blades are actually supposed to go in there? I do not believe Being is asking a silly question... with what we know about the aluminium tail bling.... if he says the stock woodies don't fit them I believe him. they are either poorly machined out of tolerance or they are machined instead for the official blade CF's and nobody told us about it.

Did you ever THINK of telling us about these things?

Maybe you did make an announcement but frankly all I recall is Mikel telling us about the shims. Good on him for that - I really respect him.

Don't get me wrong, you guys make some great stuff. mCP X is one ground breaking heli. I'm looking forward to your 300 as well. May give the T-Rex 250 and gaui's something possibly to worry about. I'm waiting to see what your 500 is going to be like.

But I don't know how to interpret that ellipse... Could be construed as smart or condescending or showing a distinct lack of respect for your customers.

Just my interpretation. I apologise if it's wrong. But how else could one interpret it? If Being can't tell us what fits in those Al grips I'd like to know what you think does....

You're lucky you've got guys like James, Mikel and Dave (Ribbe) here. Honestly, that was uncalled for.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Being View Post
I guess I could rest my case on this note... servo speed isn't as important as torque. I have a B450 all stock and a B450 with the Hitec tail servo. The Hitec heli piros are much faster with crisper holds when you let go of the stick than the stock servo.
When we are talking about tail servo, then speed is more important than torque! That's why there actually high speed (for rudder) and high torque (for cyclic) servos on the market. In any case, stock servo is pretty good untill you load it very hard. My flying skills just don't let me load it up to it's limit. However, I went for MKS 95i which is the best you can buy today. I can't tell that it was worth doing right now, maybe in future, but still not sure! I could have five stock servos for that money.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:06 AM   #14
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So... What has everyone else done to their 450X's?
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:11 AM   #15
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Honestly, at my level of flying I can't tell the difference between my 5084 blade B450 tail and my DS95i on my protos mini. They're both solid on v-bars. Maybe when my flying is more demanding I may notice the difference.

The likelihood is that I'd find the same with a DS76T but I haven't flown these in months... I think they are more fragile and by some accounts here, if they are to be believed, somewhat inconsistent in the quality. I dunno. I'm sure you'll find some guys somewhere out there on some other forum griping about 5084's or DS95i's as well I guess. But I think you can guess which servos I'd choose to prefer to depend on.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dribbe View Post
Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
David
David,




No disrespect was intended in my post and I will explain why I didn't fly the blades that came with the kits:
  • I'm in NY state and the weather is such that the skys are grey right now so the black blades have a tendency to disappear.
  • The field that I'm flying at right now is a harvested Corn field which is very dark in color and again the blades tend to disappear closer to the ground.
  • The surrounding of the field are mountains which are dark grey in color and again make the blades disappear.
This being said I would like to comment to the others that read this:
  • The stock blades are very well matched as David has described. Mine were within a 0.1 grams in weight and the CG of both blades was spot on.
  • The stock blades are a true 325mm blade measuring from hole to tip where the Aligns that I was flying are a 315mm Blade.
In regards to your comment on "The 450x is powerful"
  • The 450 X is OK on power it has some decent puch but not "powerful" as you have stated. I understand that our definitions of this could be different but when I think of powerful in a 450 I tend to think about the Scorpion 2221-8 or the Align 450MX. These motors are powerful and not even in the same category as the 440 motor supplied on the 450 X.
  • The headspeed is much better than the B400 that I had sometime ago but also still not that high in todays 450 market. I typically run 3200-3600rpm on my 450 heads today and I'm certain that the 450 X is not getting to this. Can you tell me what the headspeed of the 450 X is at 0 degrees pitch and at the extremes running just a flat 100% throttle curve? Also, can you give me the calculated calculated draws under these conditions? (I planned on putting a tach on it today but the weather doesn't look like it is going to cooperate right now.)
Just wanted to clear this up and please let me know on the headspeed and current draws...

PS - I've been flying the BeastX controller since the v2 was released and have tons of experience with it on machines ranging from 250 to 700+ in size. I understand exactly what settings and pot positions need to change from when I change blades from Align, Edge, and CY's so I think I could say that I'm qualified when it comes to this. I just wanted you personally to understand my level of understanding in regards to this....I didn't know exactly how to read into what you above but I meant no disrrespect by changing the baldes over to Align.....Peace

Last edited by mtuccio; 03-04-2012 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:02 AM   #17
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I don't think he was implying that you were using the wrong blades, nor questioning your decision to run different blades, or your understanding of how beastx works.

I took his post as a reminder to those new to FBL, that they tested and tuned the 450X and beastx with FBL blades, (ie, the CG is closer to the leading edge of the blades).

If someone would choose to run non fbl blade, or poor quality blades that the heli may not act as good as it does in all stock form.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by mtuccio View Post
David,




No disrespect was intended in my post and I will explain why I didn't fly the blades that came with the kits:
  • I'm in NY state and the weather is such that the skys are grey right now so the black blades have a tendency to disappear.
  • The field that I'm flying at right now is a harvested Corn field which is very dark in color and again the blades tend to disappear closer to the ground.
  • The surrounding of the field are mountains which are dark grey in color and again make the blades disappear.
This being said I would like to comment to the others that read this:
  • The stock blades are very well matched as David has described. Mine were within a 0.1 grams in weight and the CG of both blades was spot on.
  • The stock blades are a true 325mm blade measuring from hole to tip where the Aligns that I was flying are a 315mm Blade.
In regards to your comment on "The 450x is powerful"
  • The 450 X is OK on power it has some decent puch but not "powerful" as you have stated. I understand that our definitions of this could be different but when I think of powerful in a 450 I tend to think about the Scorpion 2221-8 or the Align 450MX. These motors are powerful and not even in the same category as the 440 motor supplied on the 450 X.
  • The headspeed is much better than the B400 that I had sometime ago but also still not that high in todays 450 market. I typically run 3200-3600rpm on my 450 heads today and I'm certain that the 450 X is not getting to this. Can you tell me what the headspeed of the 450 X is at 0 degrees pitch and at the extremes running just a flat 100% throttle curve? Also, can you give me the calculated calculated draws under these conditions? (I planned on putting a tach on it today but the weather doesn't look like it is going to cooperate right now.)
Just wanted to clear this up and please let me know on the headspeed and current draws...

PS - I've been flying the BeastX controller since the v2 was released and have tons of experience with it on machines ranging from 250 to 700+ in size. I understand exactly what settings and pot positions need to change from when I change blades from Align, Edge, and CY's so I think I could say that I'm qualified when it comes to this. I just wanted you personally to understand my level of understanding in regards to this....I didn't know exactly how to read into what you above but I meant no disrrespect by changing the baldes over to Align.....Peace

Hi,

Let me see if I can answer a few questions here...

As far as the power of the 450 X, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I will not argue that the other motors you have mentioned are more powerful than the 440H motor, BUT, you need to account for the fact that the stock 450 X is about 100 grams lighter than your typical 450 RTF. For a helicopter of this size, this is VERY significant.

As far as headspeed, again, you'll be happy to know, at 0 pitch, fresh pack, it's turning 3600. When it reaches the flat part of the battery curve, it's between 3100-3300, which is typical for 450 helicopters.

You have a helicopter that is 100 grams lighter, and turning the same headspeed as other 450s. Whereas other 450s run 14 degrees of pitch, I programmed the 450 X for only 12. Why? Fly it and you'll see that any more is truly unnecessary. In terms of raw power, yes other machines are more powerful. But in terms of the performance of the package, the 450 X will hang with the best of them and will feel much lighter than the rest of them (lighter disc loading). The lighter disc loading, combined with lower overall pitch also means longer flight times compared to other 450s. You can get a SOLID 4 minute flight of all out banging the sticks with the stock E-flite 2200mAh 30C pack.

Also, I recommend that users use the included E-flite pack. It is lighter than most other batteries and using heavier batteries will negate the lower weight benefit the 450 X offers.

Hope this helps.

M
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MikelG View Post
Hi,

Let me see if I can answer a few questions here...

As far as the power of the 450 X, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I will not argue that the other motors you have mentioned are more powerful than the 440H motor, BUT, you need to account for the fact that the stock 450 X is about 100 grams lighter than your typical 450 RTF. For a helicopter of this size, this is VERY significant.

As far as headspeed, again, you'll be happy to know, at 0 pitch, fresh pack, it's turning 3600. When it reaches the flat part of the battery curve, it's between 3100-3300, which is typical for 450 helicopters.

You have a helicopter that is 100 grams lighter, and turning the same headspeed as other 450s. Whereas other 450s run 14 degrees of pitch, I programmed the 450 X for only 12. Why? Fly it and you'll see that any more is truly unnecessary. In terms of raw power, yes other machines are more powerful. But in terms of the performance of the package, the 450 X will hang with the best of them and will feel much lighter than the rest of them (lighter disc loading). The lighter disc loading, combined with lower overall pitch also means longer flight times compared to other 450s. You can get a SOLID 4 minute flight of all out banging the sticks with the stock E-flite 2200mAh 30C pack.

Also, I recommend that users use the included E-flite pack. It is lighter than most other batteries and using heavier batteries will negate the lower weight benefit the 450 X offers.

Hope this helps.

M
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:19 PM   #20
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Was very windy here today, but got a few flights in.. Def handles the wind better with the Tarot FBL head and ZYX.

I ordered a 4400KV scorpion motor today to put on my B450.
Got a YGE 60A esc that needs the capacitors replaced that I will use on it.

This thing is gonna be wicked fast!

searching the classifieds here for some aluminum tail blade grips to put on it as I don't think the stock plastic will be able to handle that kind of rpm.



EDIT: Oops. I put this in the wrong thread, however, it is kind of a B450X...... B450ZYX
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