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Old 03-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #1
nparker13
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Default CopterX 4 Bladed Head Maiden: Rough Start

So I put the flapping hinge CopterX 4 Bladed head on my Trex 500 for the eventual use in my Jayhawk body, but am off to a rough start. I am not using eStab, and I wanted to get your feedback as to whether this is an eStab issue or setup issue:

I spooled up, and when light on the skids, she tilts to the left. I can correct and get her up, but once off the ground, its like a large scale "toliet bowl affect" constantly trying to keep it on center. Not much fun. Luckily I autoed down without breaking anything, but something needs to be done.

Do you think this is a mechanical setup issue? Phasing? Just need eStab? Please share your thoughts... Thanks! Nate
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:14 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by nparker13 View Post
So I put the flapping hinge CopterX 4 Bladed head on my Trex 500 for the eventual use in my Jayhawk body, but am off to a rough start. I am not using eStab, and I wanted to get your feedback as to whether this is an eStab issue or setup issue:

I spooled up, and when light on the skids, she tilts to the left. I can correct and get her up, but once off the ground, its like a large scale "toliet bowl affect" constantly trying to keep it on center. Not much fun. Luckily I autoed down without breaking anything, but something needs to be done.

Do you think this is a mechanical setup issue? Phasing? Just need eStab? Please share your thoughts... Thanks! Nate
Go through your setup and double check your zero point and trimmings, but to be fair this head is not going to be like when you fly e-stab. I would also double check the phasing... I have a friend that has one on a 600 and it almost hovers hands free, so check your settings again...
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:24 PM   #3
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Jose, thank you, will try again with the setup. How does the Microbeast work with 4-bladed setup? I read mixed info about the latest version of the software not supporting electronic phasing...is that true? I'm going to have a similar setup to yours in the end, I'm wondering if it just makes sense to bite the proverbial bullet and buy the Microbeast, or other FBL controller to save hassle. THanks again! Nate
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:59 PM   #4
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Jose, thank you, will try again with the setup. How does the Microbeast work with 4-bladed setup? I read mixed info about the latest version of the software not supporting electronic phasing...is that true? I'm going to have a similar setup to yours in the end, I'm wondering if it just makes sense to bite the proverbial bullet and buy the Microbeast, or other FBL controller to save hassle. THanks again! Nate

I have two 500 size scale heli's with microbeastx 2.xx software, they both flight excellent. The lates version 3.xx does support digital phasing, you have to do it with the micro setting software that you have to download from the beastx site...

Perhaps, they're talking about the AR7200BX which is Spektrum's version of the receiver/beastx technology. I have one... this one is a monster.. (not really) however, this version does not yet support digital phasing as the micro-setting software from beastx is not compatible with it... I have one (which I had not) to late now. So for this one will have to wait until spektrum comes out with their version of the micro-setting software to twickle with digital phasing.

I'm not so sure about beastx and the flapping head. I too will like to know, as I have a four blade 500 size brand new copter x flapping head just sitting on my drawer.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:12 AM   #5
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Question regarding head, I have a RCaerodyne plug and play "500" head for my scale ec135.
Just getting started on setup with Bx.v2. Initial pod hover was very rough, came off ground stable but then started violently shaking. I have not re-visited project but was going to re-check my blades balance and try to ork out any other vibes it might have.Is there a difference in the head design? What is a flapping head design w/ copterx?
And whem you talk about "phasing" what is that in reference to, "0" pitch on all 4 blades at 90deg to heli?
Thank you
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by crickr1 View Post
Question regarding head, I have a RCaerodyne plug and play "500" head for my scale ec135.
Just getting started on setup with Bx.v2. Initial pod hover was very rough, came off ground stable but then started violently shaking. I have not re-visited project but was going to re-check my blades balance and try to ork out any other vibes it might have.Is there a difference in the head design? What is a flapping head design w/ copterx?
And whem you talk about "phasing" what is that in reference to, "0" pitch on all 4 blades at 90deg to heli?
Thank you
What is happening to you is been happening to me for the last two months. I still haven't figure out what's the cause. Been through 4 heads now and I still have the shakes..

here is the thread if you are interested in reading it. It may give you some inside. However, I still haven't figure it out.. I did figure out that the shakes was due to the beastx picking up some vibes and amplifying them though the swash servos. It's been a very expensive ordeal. I have replaced everything on that heli short of the side frames and still with the same. it's a 600 size...
http://rchelicollective.com/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=1639

I will say this, the length of the swash to blade grip rod has some to do with the vibes. I shortened mines as much as possible. That may cure the violent shakes, I would also replace the risky tape that holds the beastx with something else. I'm now using the one that comes with the 401 gyro.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:56 AM   #7
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I have two 500 size scale heli's with microbeastx 2.xx software, they both flight excellent. The lates version 3.xx does support digital phasing, you have to do it with the micro setting software that you have to download from the beastx site...

Perhaps, they're talking about the AR7200BX which is Spektrum's version of the receiver/beastx technology. I have one... this one is a monster.. (not really) however, this version does not yet support digital phasing as the micro-setting software from beastx is not compatible with it... I have one (which I had not) to late now. So for this one will have to wait until spektrum comes out with their version of the micro-setting software to twickle with digital phasing.

I'm not so sure about beastx and the flapping head. I too will like to know, as I have a four blade 500 size brand new copter x flapping head just sitting on my drawer.
Looks like I may be giving the flapping head and the beastx a try after all. Will let you know how it does...
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:57 AM   #8
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Keep us posted, I'm about to pull the trigger on a BeastX for that head.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:02 PM   #9
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Keep us posted, I'm about to pull the trigger on a BeastX for that head.
I will hope to have a hover test done in a few days. Can't seem to get a decent day due to the rainy season in WA. It's been raining non stop and when you do get a break for 10 to 20 minutes I'm at work...
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:14 PM   #10
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Good luck with the weather. So apparently I didn't quite have the phasing mechanically sound (aka WAY off) ill try test hovering it tomorrow.
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #11
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Good luck with the weather. So apparently I didn't quite have the phasing mechanically sound (aka WAY off) ill try test hovering it tomorrow.
That will definitely not make you day.... I won't be able to do mine anytime soon as it appears I'm missing some parts from it... it's never been flown, but I think I borrowed from Paul to give to John, if you know what I mean. I ordered some parts but it will be a while before they get here.

I'm thinking of making a 600 class with a Copter X head, and play with in pod and boom form... Will have to see.

Hopefully, you got the phasing spot on this time. If you do, you will notice a huge difference.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #12
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Like night and day. Unbelievable. Only problem was my pitch wasn't enough to get about a couple inches. Need to shorten the links to the blade grips.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:26 PM   #13
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Like night and day. Unbelievable. Only problem was my pitch wasn't enough to get about a couple inches. Need to shorten the links to the blade grips.
Great, you need to have at least -3, to +9

mid stick you should be around +3

You probably need to adjust the swash mix on your transmitter to get more travel on the swash vs shortening the links, unless you are max on the swash travel??

What's your aile, elev, ptich percentages on the swash mix on the transmitter...

Make sure that with a lineal pitch 0,25,50,75,100 that you have max up and bottom same travel distance. i.e., if you go +10, then make sure you have -10, then make sure you have 0 pitch at midstick.. once you have done all this then you can adjust your pitch curve to something like -3, -1.5, +3, +6, +9

The recommended pitch curve by Copter X is -3 to +9
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:08 AM   #14
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I have to play with that, I had a lot of trouble getting the swash to travel a decent distance without getting bound up by the 'follower' at full pitch and full aileron and elevator deflection.

On a side note, as I get closer and closer to getting the mechanics right, do you suggest even giving the RCA flex drive a try, or ditching it and going for a TT with an angled connector?

Nate
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #15
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I have to play with that, I had a lot of trouble getting the swash to travel a decent distance without getting bound up by the 'follower' at full pitch and full aileron and elevator deflection.

On a side note, as I get closer and closer to getting the mechanics right, do you suggest even giving the RCA flex drive a try, or ditching it and going for a TT with an angled connector?

Nate
I'm not going to steer you either way. I tried it and failed on the 10th flight. I was lucky and there was no damage to the fuselage. There's many using them with great success but there's the other group that had failures with them.

If I had the opportunity to try them again I probably do it again. My failed mostly due to my own fault. It was flying fine at 82% throttle curve on a 1210kv motor with 13T Pinion.
I Kept increasing the throttle curve trying to eliminate a wobble and that's when it snapped.

I try to get another cable but RCA didn't have any sparescso Icwent with the torque tube custom-built.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:06 AM   #16
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I have to play with that, I had a lot of trouble getting the swash to travel a decent distance without getting bound up by the 'follower' at full pitch and full aileron and elevator deflection.
This strikes me as something that you wont be doing on a scale heli, heck what sort of 3D move requires full collective, ail and ele at once (i think you'll stall the blades)?.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:46 AM   #17
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Have you ordered the FBL controller yet? I use the SK720 and it's self -level is great for scale flying.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:51 AM   #18
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This strikes me as something that you wont be doing on a scale heli, heck what sort of 3D move requires full collective, ail and ele at once (i think you'll stall the blades)?.
You mean no tick-tocks in my scale fuse? Damn. (Just kidding) I know, but I'm glad I looked into this issue more because it turns out that just using the same link sizes from my old swash meant they were too long. I did a complete tear down and built step by step adjusting properly, and now my pitch range is much better (before it was maybe -3 / +3 mainly because anything higher would bind).

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Have you ordered the FBL controller yet? I use the SK720 and it's self -level is great for scale flying.
I got the CopterX 3x1000 for fun to see if its actually worth while but it doesnt work. I havent done anything but hover so far, and it seems to hover well without stabi (its a flapping head). I want to take it FFF and see if I regret it. I was thinking a BeastX if I didnt like how it flew, but we'll see....
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:27 PM   #19
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You mean no tick-tocks in my scale fuse? Damn. (Just kidding) I know, but I'm glad I looked into this issue more because it turns out that just using the same link sizes from my old swash meant they were too long. I did a complete tear down and built step by step adjusting properly, and now my pitch range is much better (before it was maybe -3 / +3 mainly because anything higher would bind).



I got the CopterX 3x1000 for fun to see if its actually worth while but it doesnt work. I havent done anything but hover so far, and it seems to hover well without stabi (its a flapping head). I want to take it FFF and see if I regret it. I was thinking a BeastX if I didnt like how it flew, but we'll see....

Now that I managed to have 5 flights under very windy conditions, I decided to do a little experimenting. Yes, I know, I never learn, I installed the Copter X 600 size flapping hinge head in conjunction with the beast x flybarless system to the Chaos 600 to see how it does. Initial findings; It hovers very nicely with the carbon fiber blades, cyclic is consistent. I removed the carbon fiber blades and installed the semi-symmetrical blades (flat bottom) it hovers, but it does require a bit more of handling, cyclic is more aggressive, but once you get the hang of it you can put it in a nice hover. Next will be to do a trial at the field, first with the scale blades, then with the carbon fiber blades...
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:59 PM   #20
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Nice! I'm excited to hear the results. I havent yet done any FFF but hopefully this week will get some time to. If I'm comfortable without eStab, I'm going to start the tail conversion and body assembly. Otherwise, I'll probably go for a BeastX and another round of bare mechanical testing.
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