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Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 03-09-2012, 08:13 AM   #1
rpmrpm
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Default DX6i setup and 10% throttle hold???

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/BLH4380-Manual_EN.pdf

Link to B450X manual above.

Why does the setup for the DX6i have you set-up your throttle curve to 10% in hold? Wouldn't you want it at 0% across? All the other radios listed have 0% as you would expect. Won't setting it to 10% in hold give you a false zero point when arming with hold on. And causing a dead point at spool up in normal mode. Or if armed in normal mode it would "idle" the motor then hold is engaged.

What am I missing? Why are they recommending this
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:40 AM   #2
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it's a bug with the dx6i.

has to be 10%.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:42 AM   #3
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Hello rpm,

There is an offset in the DX6i that is not present in other radios. The 10% in throttle hold allows you to bind/power on with throttle hold off or on. Without the 10%, if you powered up your helicopter in throttle hold and then switched to normal mode with throttle trim centered, the motor would begin spinning. The 10% prevents this from happening.

Hope this helps.

M
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:17 AM   #4
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Interesting, Thanks for the quick clarification. Binding now.........flights tonight.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikelG View Post
Hello rpm,

There is an offset in the DX6i that is not present in other radios. The 10% in throttle hold allows you to bind/power on with throttle hold off or on. Without the 10%, if you powered up your helicopter in throttle hold and then switched to normal mode with throttle trim centered, the motor would begin spinning. The 10% prevents this from happening.

Hope this helps.

M
Might be something worth documenting in the manual?

Without a bit of explanation thrown in, some guys might see this as a typo, and put in 0%...
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:42 AM   #6
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Default Throttle trim

Should throttle trim be centered or all the way down?
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Moleo76 View Post
Should throttle trim be centered or all the way down?
Yes, I also always wonder... what is the point in using trim on the throttle?
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
Yes, I also always wonder... what is the point in using trim on the throttle?
I'd always assumed it was so you could set low-stick to be a stable idle point on a gasser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikelG View Post
Hello rpm,

There is an offset in the DX6i that is not present in other radios. The 10% in throttle hold allows you to bind/power on with throttle hold off or on. Without the 10%, if you powered up your helicopter in throttle hold and then switched to normal mode with throttle trim centered, the motor would begin spinning. The 10% prevents this from happening.

Hope this helps.

M
I'm quite confused by this. So if you're at low-stick on the DX6i, it's actually at 10%, even when the monitor mode shows it at 0? Or... throttle hold affects the actual throttle curve somehow?
Is there someplace I can go to read about this explained in significantly more detail, as that makes no sense.

Unless low-stick is actually 10%, throttle hold allows that to be bypassed and sent an ACTUAL 0%, and the heli is bound with TH on and 'memorizes' the zero-point at that time. Meaning that if it was bound with TH off at low stick, it wouldn't matter... unless it also takes the lowest observed throttle value and resets its zero-point on the fly.

...actually, that could potentially explain why my mSR starts with a hard jerk when spooled up with my DX6i, and none with the crappy MLP4DSM blobby controller. Though for that it'd (probably) have to send 0% at the absolute bottom of throttle travel, and jump to 10% as soon as it was moved.

...all of which is theorycrafting. MikelG, could you please direct me/us to any documentation on this behaviour/issue? Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talesin View Post
I'd always assumed it was so you could set low-stick to be a stable idle point on a gasser.



I'm quite confused by this. So if you're at low-stick on the DX6i, it's actually at 10%, even when the monitor mode shows it at 0? Or... throttle hold affects the actual throttle curve somehow?
Is there someplace I can go to read about this explained in significantly more detail, as that makes no sense.

Unless low-stick is actually 10%, throttle hold allows that to be bypassed and sent an ACTUAL 0%, and the heli is bound with TH on and 'memorizes' the zero-point at that time. Meaning that if it was bound with TH off at low stick, it wouldn't matter... unless it also takes the lowest observed throttle value and resets its zero-point on the fly.

...actually, that could potentially explain why my mSR starts with a hard jerk when spooled up with my DX6i, and none with the crappy MLP4DSM blobby controller. Though for that it'd (probably) have to send 0% at the absolute bottom of throttle travel, and jump to 10% as soon as it was moved.

...all of which is theorycrafting. MikelG, could you please direct me/us to any documentation on this behaviour/issue? Thanks!
The reasons are to prevent un-intended startup after plugging in the battery. I think the ESC does not arm itself until it see's a 0 throttle. For the most safety, they want to force the user to have had the left stick at 0 and some point prior allowing the blades to start.

situation:
If you would have your throttle stick at mid stick with TH on (10%), and then you plug in the battery, then remove TH, the blades will not start.

In the above situation, if TH was set to 0, the blades may start when you remove TH because the ESC would have armed itself when it saw the 0 from the TH..

on edit: I'm wrong/and right on the above. I just looked at my dx6i. when TH is set to 0% in the settings, it actually sends a negative -10, (you can see the arrow on the monitor function go below zero). So, when you are at TH and then remove TH, the arrow moves from negative, to 0..

I wonder if the ESC somehow thinks that 'negative' value is actually a new 0, and so when TH is remove, the new value is higher, and causes the motor to start..

By setting TH to 10%, you can see the arrow on the monitor screen does not move when you toggle TH now.


Posted by MikelG last year:
Hello everyone,

I have been following the forum and see that there is a lot of discussion concerning the throttle hold settings on the DX6i for the Blade 450 3D.

As shipped, the throttle hold value in the throttle curve should be 10%. This was setup to ensure that the motor did not start when you plugged in the battery, regardless of whether throttle hold was activated.

In order for this to function properly though, the throttle trim must remain in the center. This setup has been tested thoroughly to ensure that the motor will not start

You can verify this by checking the 'monitor' menu in your DX6i. Simply look at the arrow location when in normal mode and the throttle stick all the way down. Then activate throttle hold. The arrow should not move.

In some radios, due to variation in calibration, you may see the arrow move slightly. Although this will not create an unsafe condition, feel free to adjust your throttle trim a few clicks to ensure that the arrow does not move when activating and de-activating throttle hold.

Ultimately, your goal is to ensure that if you power up in normal mode or throttle hold, the motor should not spin with throttle hold is activated and should not spin when in normal mode and throttle stick is all the way down.

The easiest way to do this is to ensure that the throttle output is the same when throttle hold is activated as it is in normal mode and the throttle stick is all the way down. For those who have the BNF Basic and using their own radios, ensure that this condition is met.

Adjust your radio to ensure that this criteria is satisfied. Once setup properly and verified, you will be able to plug in the battery with throttle hold activated or de-activated safely as long as your throttle stick is all the way down and throttle trim centered.

Mikel
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InFocus View Post
The reasons are to prevent un-intended startup after plugging in the battery. I think the ESC does not arm itself until it see's a 0 throttle. For the most safety, they want to force the user to have had the left stick at 0 and some point prior allowing the blades to start.

situation:
If you would have your throttle stick at mid stick with TH on (10%), and then you plug in the battery, then remove TH, the blades will not start.

In the above situation, if TH was set to 0, the blades may start when you remove TH because the ESC would have armed itself when it saw the 0 from the TH..
Okay, so it's a secondary safety in the situation you describe; to spool up at all, the heli must first be at zero-stick with TH off to allow the ESC to arm. That doesn't exactly gel though, as there are a few people who DO start mid-stick by flipping TH off and letting it self-spool.

The problem with that also is that after that point, TH will keep the throttle at 10% any time it is on, *preventing* it from seeing zero-stick with TH on. It also doesn't explain why it's DX6i-specific; he'd said that there's an 'offset' specific to the DX6i. The above double-safety would apply to ANY transmitter if that were the case.

Does the DX6i stick start at 10% throttle on its travel internally (as Mikel's explanation would support, with the throttle channel not moving with TH on or off with the TH throttle curve set to 10%), but allow TH to bypass the higher zero-stick starting point and give a 'true zero', which would be seen by the heli (and kept at 10% throttle even at the bottom of the stick throw) if it's been provided with a 'true 0%' by seeing TH switched on?


(Edit:)
I've just confirmed this. Set up a new profile and set the HOLD curve to 0%, leave the NORM curve linear from 0-100%. Go into Monitor mode, leave the throttle at zero-stick and flip the TH switch on and off. It drops below the point that zero-stick sends, so if the heli saw TH on (sending an actual 0%), switching it off the heli would see the throttle 'jump' to 10%, even at zero-stick. If it's bound/initialized at 10%, that's the actual signal setting for zero-stick on the DX6i.

Learn something new every day. Have to wonder if there's a way to fix that little 'feature' on the DX6i now. And still have to wonder why the offset is there at all.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:26 PM   #11
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Great info guys!

Altho it really does need to be emphasized alot more in the manual. I honestly did think it was a typo at first.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:47 PM   #12
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Yeah, same here. I'd figured it was part of the 'dead stick' at the bottom of the throttle throw, and why the dead stick was there to start with for whatever reason.

At least... I *hope* everyone's needs about 1/4 throttle before the motor finally gets enough juice to start spooling up the rotor?


Think I may go and re-bind all of my other helis with TH at 10% as well, just to see if that may help fix some of the low-throttle oddities I've noticed (compared to the MLP4DSM).
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
Yes, I also always wonder... what is the point in using trim on the throttle?
Very nice and clear. Can anybody help a sort of newbie understand for what one would need trim on the throttle?
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