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Old 03-14-2012, 08:19 AM   #1
WBFAir
 
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Default New Quantum motors on a HeliJive?

Hello all

I have a 700E all apart as I sent in my HeliJive for the update and by the way I built it, it had to come all apart to disconnect it from the motor.

Since it would be the best time and as well as it really needs to be done, I want to replace the stock motor before putting it back together.

Hands down my first and really about only perfect choice would be the Xera 4035 2.5y 480 but sadly Dave is not making any right now (nor seems to be selling/making any others) and as most would understand, there is no word on when he will and its just getting too close to the season to wait much longer so I have to make a move.

In looking over what can be gotten, I have come across these new Quantum motors that are supposed to be coming out by the end of the month.

http://www.quantummotors.com

From what I gather they are being made by the same company that made the Outrage motors which I gather were not held highly but supposedly, these are of a new design?

At any rate, in looking at the 4135-530Kv motor, aside from a little bit of a higher Kv, this motor looks almost the same spec wise as the Xera 480.

As well their bigger motor, the 4530-500 seems to be very eagerly awaiting its release by the Goblin guys and has been getting really good feedback reports on those helo's (and I think on the HeliJives) of their pre-production units.

As well I just had some Pm's with a guy using their smallest motor the 4125-560 on a 12s Fusion 50 with a Jive 80. And with using it for what he said was about a 100 flights so far, he is giving it great reports for both power and efficiency and states that he is not even running it in KSA mode.

Anyway, all remains to be seen but I thought I would make a post to see if anyone could have a look at the specs on the 4135-530 motor and tell me any thoughts they might have.

Especially any thoughts they might have to as to how it might run on a HeliJive?

Thanks for any help.

PS, am really not making this post to look for or start a whole thing over other motors to use, so I hope things can be kept on just the point on the opinions of this motor and in relation to the questions I posed.

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:09 AM   #2
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Whether the Quantum will work well with the Jive will depend on the winding pattern used. Hopefully it is also YY like the Scorpion LE motors which is what the Jive prefers.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #3
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Yeah it has been really hard to find any info on these but I think I did read in one place that these motors are one continuous strand of wiring for what ever that means, and that this means it has to be of some type of winding that is like the Xeras I think?

Also just herd from someone that these motors are wound by the same guy that winds the Xera motors.

Btw hope no one is thinking I'm trying to do or say anything against David here, just passing along info as I hear about it.

For me there is nothing more that I would like then to have to deal with none of this and just place a order for one of his motors as for all that I have read, there are none better.

All in all I do have a inquiry into Quantum via their website that I did last night with some questions including any feed back they can give me on workings with the Jives and hopefully will hear back from them and even this will be a good test as I don't like to deal with vendors that don't respond to questions, (although with the start up of a new deal I could understand and give some more slack).

But if I get any info I will report back and also plan to ask follow up questions such as the type of winding one and will continue to report.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post
For me there is nothing more that I would like then to have to deal with none of this and just place a order for one of his motors as for all that I have read, there are none better.
It will be great to get some more info on these motors. As for being the best, I'm always sceptic until I have run and compared them myself. This hobby is full of hype and I always prefer to be surprised on the upside than be disappointed by hype!
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:24 AM   #5
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A friend just got the 4530 motor from the local dealer. He said it looks very good from the outside. It is multi-strand wiring and Delta winding so we'll have to see how if works with the Jive...
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:37 AM   #6
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Forgive my ignorance but is Delta different from YY?

Btw the more I do research on these motors the more I am seeing that these seem to be coming from the same people that were making the Outrage motors.

In looking at those, from what little I have seen I can't seem to find anything on any issues with the Jives.

Although I get that stuff you are talking about with the hype as while this may not be a bad thing just because this is the case but for just about every positive word I have seen posted about them, that seems to be coming from someone with Team Outrage listed in their ID.

Again not saying that as I think they are lying or anything and I do appreciate the responses they are giving

On a good side they are being sold via HeliDirect at least for now and they have a good rep for supporting the things they sell so if there are issues at least you can go back to them.

Btw its been about 24hrs and I have yet to hear anything back from that inquiry I made to their website. Think I'm going to give HD a call and see if they have any info they can give me.

Last edited by WBFAir; 03-15-2012 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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I wrote QUANTUM also and asked the following.

QUANTUM 4530-500

Do you need to the oil the bearings after so many flights?
How many bearings are in the motor?
Size of the bearings?
What is the Frequency / pwm rate (8 or 12 khz)for setup in the ESC?
Will you have replacement bearings & shafts that the customer can install?
What is your warranty?
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:11 PM   #8
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Out of all of those about the only thing I can say is that the one person I PM'ed told me that he had about a 100 flights on the bearings and they were holding up very well but also that he was told "not" to oil them as well.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #9
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Thanks, hopefully that is a good sign that they do not need oiling and they hold up. Someone was stating that they were "seal greased bearings" & oiling would screw them up, but I could not confirm that.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post
Forgive my ignorance but is Delta different from YY?
Yep. Some info here http://www.scorpionsystem.com/buildi...ld_and_review/ and
http://www.usmotors.com/TechDocs/Pro...t-Winding.aspx
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #11
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Hey guys

I just got off the phone with a person at HeliDirect and asked him quite a few questions and will go over them but also keep in mind this is one person and these motors are new so a lot of things are unknown and yet to be vetted.

Just to mention it, the person I spoke to is running a 4530-500 KV in his Goblin right now but has only had a chance to have a few light test flights with it.

As far as the warranty goes he didn't have that info yet. Was told they are waiting to have it provided to them and should have it by next week. But all in all he was figuring there would be probably something of a standard thing such as six months to a year but reminded me that he was just speculating on that.

But also discussed that to remember that they are a dealer for them too and as their name is involved with them like this, he felt they would be sure that people were getting taken care of at least via their store.

As far as the bearings he stated that in looking at them that one, they are replaceable but of course would need the right standard tools for this and that this shouldn't be just done with hammers. But from all that he could say, they looked to be of a good size as well as a standard one, and so far has speculated was that the bearings are pre-lubed and hasn't herd of any special lubing needs.

In regards to them flying with Jives, he told me that he is running his on a jive right now and is not running it in KSA mode and so far (again just a few flights) hasn't seen any issues with it.

Also while I was on the phone with him he check by looking right at it right there an as he had a Rex 700 to look at he stated that he didn't see any issues with the 4530-500 KV fitting in one just fine (again not what I'm looking to use but figured is someone was, they would like to know).

Other then that he just told me that the motor is well built and wasn't done cheaply.

Basically he talked about that he is going to try to do some more flying with it and over the weekend and that I could call him back on Monday and he should have more info for me on its performance and for some of my other questions.

So hope that wasn't all too long winded for what probably isn't a lot of new or better info but I figured I would report what I was told.

Thanks
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:44 PM   #12
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Heli G & WBFAir thanks for the info & update. It seems that pilots who have the Quantum 4530 are flying them in Goblins. The reports they give are very positive. i.e. happy with the power & smoothnes. Some have posted data graphs of their fights in the HeliFreak - SAB Heli (Goblin) Forum. So you may want to do some searching there.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #13
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just so you know its not one of the"new generation" motors i.e. new compass motor out soon, kontronik pyro and black edition, scorpion le motors, very much run of the mill so to speak, being a big motor sure you'll get decent performance but not as good as the aforementioned, me, I wouldn't buy it, but then I wind my own motors, still there are better options, look for single wire preferably in yy winding as esc's love them and so much power that no lipo exist to feed them properly
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
just so you know its not one of the"new generation" motors i.e. new compass motor out soon, kontronik pyro and black edition, scorpion le motors, very much run of the mill so to speak, being a big motor sure you'll get decent performance but not as good as the aforementioned, me, I wouldn't buy it, but then I wind my own motors, still there are better options, look for single wire preferably in yy winding as esc's love them and so much power that no lipo exist to feed them properly
Are you saying if it uses a single wire or is a yy winding that it makes it a "new generation" motor? Please give some data / specs.
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Last edited by gww528; 03-15-2012 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
just so you know its not one of the"new generation" motors i.e. new compass motor out soon, kontronik pyro and black edition, scorpion le motors, very much run of the mill so to speak, being a big motor sure you'll get decent performance but not as good as the aforementioned, me, I wouldn't buy it, but then I wind my own motors, still there are better options, look for single wire preferably in yy winding as esc's love them and so much power that no lipo exist to feed them properly
Note saying anything against any of this from a technical side, but just to restate, I am not looking for the most powerful motor I can find.

I know how it was kinda meant but personally I have no need or want for a motor that can draw more then my batteries can supply nor would I want to do that to them.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Are you saying if it uses a single wire or is a yy winding that it makes it a "new generation" motor? Please give some data / specs.
Both single wire and yy.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post
Note saying anything against any of this from a technical side, but just to restate, I am not looking for the most powerful motor I can find.

I know how it was kinda meant but personally I have no need or want for a motor that can draw more then my batteries can supply nor would I want to do that to them.
Having a motor that has more power than your lipo can provide doesn't mean you have to kill your lipo with it, what it does though is give you the ability to run very well governed speeds as well as a lot more grunt for high load low headspeed 3d
I'm not bashing this new outrage or q motor just stating that imop it brings nothing new to the table.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolla View Post
Having a motor that has more power than your lipo can provide doesn't mean you have to kill your lipo with it, what it does though is give you the ability to run very well governed speeds as well as a lot more grunt for high load low headspeed 3d
I'm not bashing this new outrage or q motor just stating that imop it brings nothing new to the table.
Stolla I am interested in your opinion with the following motors.
The Scorpion HK-4530-540 & Quantum 4530-500 KV Motor are physically the same size motor (Quantum 0.1mm bigger). The Scorpion is 9 grams heavier.

Continuous Current, Continuous Power & Windings
Scorpion = 115 Amps, 4800 Watts, single wire & yy
Quantum = 125 Amps, 5000 Watts, delta

Now I understand that the Scorpion is a "new generation motor" but it looks like the Quantum is going to give more power for the same size motor. What do you think?

thank you


Below is for reference

Someone who owns both the Xera 4530 & Quantum 4530 could not tell any difference in power. (both being Delta windings)

Scorpion HK-4530-540 Limited Edition Motor

Stator Diameter ............................ 45.0 mm (1.772 in)
Stator Thickness ........................... 30.0 mm (1.181 in)
No. of Stator Arms ................................................ 12
No. of Magnet Poles ............................................... 10
Motor Wind .............................................. 9 Turn Wye
Motor Wire ....................... 1-Strand 1.50mm (15 AWG)
Motor Kv ............................................. 540 RPM / Volt
No-Load Current (Io) .................. 2.11 Amps @ 10 volts
Motor Resistance (Rm) ............................. 0.010 Ohms
Max Continuous Current ............................. 115 Amps
Max Continuous Power .............................. 4800 Watts
Weight ...................................... 565 Grams (19.93 oz)
Outside Diameter .......................... 56.7 mm (2.232 in)
Shaft Diameter ............................. 5.98 mm (0.236 in)
Body Length ................................. 60.6 mm (2.386 in)
Overall Shaft Length .................... 100.0 mm (3.937 in)
Max Li-Po Cell Count ............................................ 12s
Recommended Timing .......................... 15-24 Degrees
Recommended PWM Frequency .......................... 8 KHz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quantum 4530-500 KV Motor

Stator Diameter............................. 45MM
Stator Thickness........................... 30MM
No. of Magnetic Poles.................. 10
No. of Stator Arms......................... 12
Motor Kv ......................................... 500 RPM/Volt
Max Continuous Current............... 125 Amps
Max Continuous Power................ 5000 Watts
Weight............................................ . 556 Grams
Overall Shaft Length...................... 102.85mm
No-Load Current (lo)..................... 2.0 Amps@10V
Motor Resistance (Rm)................ 0.010 Ohms
Outside Diameter.......................... 56.8MM
Shaft Diameter.............................. 8MM to 6MM
Body Length................................... 60.7MM
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Last edited by gww528; 03-16-2012 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:00 AM   #19
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Motor ratings are not made equal.. I could say that same motor can do 200A if i do have different parameters on airflow etc.

Only compare those numbers within same manufacturer.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:00 AM   #20
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as mr mel stated those figures mean nothing, I can tell you the scorpion can do much more than 4800 continuously, I think that spec was typed up by their secretary,
Yy motors are incredibly powerful and because they work better with esc's you can extract the best out of them, http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.ph...53&postcount=5
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