HP03t Tail Motor.. Finally!

[briareos7777]

When my brushless tail (hp03t / hp02t) blade jerked back and forth, it was because the tail motor wire had a break somewhere, or about to have a break. Then sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I rewound the hp03t old and new a few times now. After the rewind the tail motors work perfectly for me (That's if I did the rewind correctly).

The hp03t on my spin16300 heli has been working really well now. I found out the cause of the tail blow out sometimes on it. It was because the tail wiring shrink wrap was hitting the hp03t bell sometimes. That's why it only happened sometimes (at least that's what I think was happening). I haven't had the tail blow out on pitch pumps on the 16300 anymore.

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

More incentive to get an xp-3a. When I finally upgrade to an aftermarket frame, I'll swap out the tail esc for an xp-3a.

So this morning, I'm all excited to go burn through a few batteries before domestic responsibilities take the rest of the day.

Pop in a fresh Hyp, do the TH cycles, and... chicken dance. WTF? I had set the heli down last night after successfully flying it several times, and it hadn't been touched since the last time I flew it.

Held it in my hand, and did a run up. Tail blade is jerking back and forth, changing it's rotating direction rapidly. Two top contenders for diagnosis: 1. Tail signal. Although I *think* if I was losing tail signal, the prop wouldn't turn at all. 2. Bad bullet connector connection.

Re-soldered the male ends of the bullet connectors. Put it back together, wala, tail worked (on the bench). Put it all together, hand hold it for a test run up, tail prop jerking back and forth. So it looks like, in the search of convenience by using bullet connectors, I'm faced with having to un-do them and hard solder them. Since I'm running the Atmel version of BLHeli, this means facing Murphy straight on; if the motor runs backwards, it's back to the iron yet again.

Ah well, if hard soldering takes care of this problem, I'll be more than pleased, as a signal wire problem would mean a huge tear down and rebuild. Guess I shoulda listened to Dylan in the first place, and hard soldered them to start with.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by briareos7777

When my brushless tail (hp03t / hp02t) blade jerked back and forth, it was because the tail motor wire had a break somewhere, or about to have a break. Then sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I rewound the hp03t old and new a few times now. After the rewind the tail motors work perfectly for me (That's if I did the rewind correctly).

The hp03t on my spin16300 heli has been working really well now. I found out the cause of the tail blow out sometimes on it. It was because the tail wiring shrink wrap was hitting the hp03t bell sometimes. That's why it only happened sometimes (at least that's what I think was happening). I haven't had the tail blow out on pitch pumps on the 16300 anymore.

That helps, thanks!

Now I'm wondering if the problem is in the bullet connector connections, or in the crappy wiring. Maybe I'll just upgrade the tail wire while I'm at it.

[SuperBee364]

Back on the bench. Tail wires soldered. Murphy won. But aside from that...

Now, most of the time, the tail motor works fine. It still jerks sometimes, though. Makes me wonder if I'm missing some enamel off of a wire somewhere.

Tempted to just cut the magnet wire down, and upgrade to the 28AWG milspec stuff I have sitting here. Stuff is really stiff, though.

Don't drink coffee prior to soldering tiny wires...

[tommeke]

very neat soldering, which i was half as good

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by tommeke

very neat soldering, which i was half as good

Thanks, man, I've been practicing a ton. Practiced on a bunch of old computer motherboards.

The wires in the photo were just overlapped and soldered, as I knew Murphy would win. Now that I know I have to swap two of them to get the motor turning the correct direction, they'll be properly twisted and soldered together.

[tommeke]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Thanks, man, I've been practicing a ton. Practiced on a bunch of old computer motherboards.

The wires in the photo were just overlapped and soldered, as I knew Murphy would win. Now that I know I have to swap two of them to get the motor turning the correct direction, they'll be properly twisted and soldered together.

my soldering looks like , i realy need some one else to do it, it works but is ugly as hell

[briareos7777]

You can use a multimeter to see if the wires are ok. Just make sure there's a connection from one wire to the other 2 (The multimeter will make a continous sound). for example:
1 to 2
1 to 3

(2 to 3 should be connected since 2 is connected to 1 and 3 is connected to 1.).

Sometimes the tail wire works, but when you bend the wires at the right spot then it'll stop working because the wire is partially broken or maybe the part where all 3 wires are soldered together one wire is came loose.

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

That helps, thanks!

Now I'm wondering if the problem is in the bullet connector connections, or in the crappy wiring. Maybe I'll just upgrade the tail wire while I'm at it.

[SuperBee364]

Good news: I found the problem. Bad news: it requires a pretty major tear down to fix.

The bottom most lead coming off of the tail esc was hanging by a single strand of wire. What I did to put that much stress on the wire... I have no idea.

[NCcraig]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Good news: I found the problem. Bad news: it requires a pretty major tear down to fix.

The bottom most lead coming off of the tail esc was hanging by a single strand of wire. What I did to put that much stress on the wire... I have no idea.

I can fix that for you!

Thanks for the post in the other forum.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by NCcraig

I can fix that for you!

Thanks for the post in the other forum.

You betcha.

I'd take you up on that, but at this point in time, it's a matter of not letting the damn thing beat me.

Of course, this would be on the tail esc, which is mounted underneath the main esc, which is hard soldered to the front of the 3-1.

Gonna be a long night.

[SuperBee364]

Got up at the crack of early this morning, and got to work.

Many hours later, it's flying like a dream.

As Dylan said, the tail is much more accurate with higher head speeds. At 100% RPM, the tail never even moves. It's still completely acceptable at lower governed head speeds, it's just not as fast to be accurate as it is at the higher head speeds; the tail will move a bit, then find it's correct position. Not blow out, more like "hunting".

The version of BLHeli I'm running (the older version for Atmel MCU's) really doesn't like wind much at all. Anxious to swap out to an xp-3a to see how much this is improved in the newest version. The 120sr tail was rock solid in the wind.

Over all, it was a fun build, and so far, very fun to fly. and a as well as a few strips of crispy

If anyone has any questions on a BL tail, fire away. One build certainly makes me no expert, but I'll answer everything I can (and just make stuff up for the ones I can't ).

If I were to do this again, the only thing I'd change is I'd go with an xp-3a for the tail. Oh, and I'd also go with an aftermarket frame. I won't fly a stock frame again without having Dylan's frame/canopy pin brace kit on it, and unfortunately, that kit limits you to mounting esc's on the front of the 3-1 unless you want to modify the brace plate, or possibly add shims.

I even stuck with the micro bullet connectors for the tail. I'd really like to add bullet connectors to the main motor, but I have no idea what size would be appropriate. Guess that will be my next research project.

Well, I'm outta here. It's a beautiful spring day outside, and I have 9 fully charged 550's awaiting.

Back later with the damage report.

Edit: Can't seem to ever just post something without adding an edit... Anyway, thought I'd explain why the interest in the main motor bullet connectors. I've soldered, de-soldered, re-soldered my main motor from the esc at least a dozen times. Throw that on top of how many times those main motor leads have been bent around the 3-1 board, and it adds up to a ton of wire fatigue. How much fatigue? Enough that this morning I had to shorten the motor leads due to fraying/broken strands. Back in my plank days, guys used to chant the "never shorten your BL motor leads" mantra again and again. Not sure if that's still applicable, but even if it's not, there's not much wire there to play with. Having to shorten them just a couple times can get them dang short in a hurry. I never mounted a BL motor in a plank with out bullet connectors. Kinda thought it odd that guys don't use 'em much on helis (or at least the micro helis, anyway).

[HeliSmith]

It's just because most the time motor wire has enamel on it even under the insulator but if you remove the enamel you are fine. Feel your motor wires see if any are getting warmer than the others after you fly.

[Cujo22]

I noticed that you are using the version 1 board, any reason for not using a version 2?
Is anyone having success with version 2?

[briareos7777]

I'm using a hp05 with a hp03t tail old (12 magnets version) on a v2 board and it works great.

Originally Posted by Cujo22

I noticed that you are using the version 1 board, any reason for not using a version 2?
Is anyone having success with version 2?

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by HeliSmith

It's just because most the time motor wire has enamel on it even under the insulator but if you remove the enamel you are fine. Feel your motor wires see if any are getting warmer than the others after you fly.

The enamel on the three twist times three wire wind on the hp05s was pretty hard to remove. It took numerous passes through a hot ball of solder to get it all off.

Doesn't seem to be running any hotter. Now if I can just go more than a few days without having to de-solder the wires.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Cujo22

I noticed that you are using the version 1 board, any reason for not using a version 2?
Is anyone having success with version 2?

Just didn't want to fight the v2 battle, but now that this one is done, it's a possibility. I do have a v2 board...

[GeneralAntilles]

So what's a 2S setup look like with XP-12A and HP06v2, and XP-3A with HP03t?

Also, how critical is increasing the wire size on the HP03t. I'm excited because the stock thin wires fit through the tail boom and I don't want to have to wrap it around the boom.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

So what's a 2S setup look like with XP-12A and HP06v2, and XP-3A with HP03t?

Also, how critical is increasing the wire size on the HP03t. I'm excited because the stock thin wires fit through the tail boom and I don't want to have to wrap it around the boom.

Hopefully LiftBag will do one of his famous 2s builds with an hp03t tail and let us know, 'cause that's waaay outside my meager skills!

The hp03t comes stock with very long wire. Very long. Like enough for two tail booms. I'm not positive what size the wire is, but I would guess it's about 30 gauge. Thin stuff. Definitely thinner than the 28 gauge wire I have.

I have the stock tail wires terminated in bullet connectors, which are bulleted to 28 AWG wire that is soldered to the esc. With the hp05s main motor, I'm not stressing the hp03t tail motor at all. In this configuration, the stock tail wire is just fine. Whether or not it would be fine when paired up with a higher power main? I think I'd definitely take Dylan's advice and run bigger wires.