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Old 03-20-2012, 02:15 PM   #1
neohp
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Unhappy So sad to report another burning commander V...

Hello everyone.

Does anybody knows who i need to get contact with at scorpion about my issue ?

I've just finished my build of the gobelin. I did all the wiring carefully (this is far from being my first build (TDR/aurora/yge/jive/vbar/gt5...)) and programmed everything as per manuals/vids : esc, vbar etc.


I wanted to try it on the bench before i maiden it. So i plugged my battery, started the motor without blades.

Iddle 1 fine, everything was running smooth.
I switched iddle 2 (same vbar gov settings, i did a copy in all banks), which is only 3%higher on the radio (dx8) so 1600 theoretically rpm at 12s, (was running 6s for the testings).

SWOOOsh big big huge flames.... I had a hard time extinguishing the fire and i discovered what all that smell was about.

Rip esc.

I watched mrmel vids before turning the heli alive. My motor is a unused out of the box 4530 LE, no shorts (it ran for 2 minutes anyway before the fire), short screws not touching anything inside and clean wiring outside.

I'm the first to be sorry about that, i was thriling to see how this combo would work.
I really don't know what could happen, i tripled checked everything. latest softwares, clean mount.
I don't get it and i'm pissed of because i burned my hands a little, i had a big fire started in my house and a smoked salmon/heli. And loss of money, of course....
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Last edited by neohp; 03-20-2012 at 05:28 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #2
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Sorry for your lose.. The first few you have to give benefit of doubt, but something is clear going wrong with these controllers. Good luck with this matter.


I'm rooting for them as well. They have to be something awesome there, as so many people love them. Hats off to George as well for his directness in these matter. I just hate see you and others lose high end heli's to those failures, not to mention all the down time involved in sending esc and motors oversea's, where they get lost and it takes months to get a resolution. It'd be great to see a much more direct, customer taken care of immediately approach since it seems clear that it's not the customers fault of the failures.
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #3
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Default OHH NO!!!

Sorry to hear this! I understand your frustration. Atleast it happened on the bench and didn't result in a crash. I really wonder what is going on!? Did you happen to check your motor for shorts like MrMels video? With it mounted on the motor plate? That is the only thing I didn't check with my last failure. I'm holding another one of these ESC's in my hand right now...and am very nervous to try it!
All that said, I'm rooting for Georges and his team! I desperately want this thing to work!!
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:17 PM   #4
neohp
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i'm feeling the same way ! I love their spirit and i know they work hard. On the paper this esc has everything one needs.

The motor has no shorts. I even tested it on the bench with my jive 80hv and it is running ok so far.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:49 PM   #5
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Default I know with the jive at least

Your not supposed to run it without the blades. Without the blades your head speed gets way too high. Don't know if this was the cause but it is a bad idea to do that. I just barely turn mine on for a sec to make sure the head is turning the right way. Then attach blades and take it outside for all testing. Sorry for your loss.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:24 PM   #6
neohp
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Thanks.

i ran it 6s instead of 12 for testing. I guess that wasn't too much.
If i had the blades on outside, i can't imagine the state of the heli by the time i would have been able to reach it....
I'v always done vibration kiling test without blades in the past. You just need to remind that with no load, you reach high rotation speed with very low throttle.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhunter View Post
Your not supposed to run it without the blades. Without the blades your head speed gets way too high. Don't know if this was the cause but it is a bad idea to do that. I just barely turn mine on for a sec to make sure the head is turning the right way. Then attach blades and take it outside for all testing. Sorry for your loss.
Not really sure I agree with this statement. We've all seen MrMel test multiple times on the bench without blades. He too suggests using a smaller pack like a 6s. But I think with the external gov setup like in the vbar, I find bench testing without blades to be a very valuable thing!
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #8
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Totally without load is one thing but without blades, no, it should be no problem.

I'm sorry about the loss, contact Scorpion direct. ps1 [@] spihk.com without brackets.

One positive thing in all this though, Georges is determined to make the best ESC possible,so every failure, will be analyzed and if there is a common thing it will be changed immediately, it's sad that it has to happen at all, but we are on the brink of what ESC's can handle so everything has to be right for sure.

(we are talking down to a component might be better off if its moved 1mm) etc.

If space and weight was not an issue, it would have been "easy", but who want a 1kg milk-cartoon as a ESC.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjsamuel View Post
Sorry to hear this! I understand your frustration. Atleast it happened on the bench and didn't result in a crash. I really wonder what is going on!? Did you happen to check your motor for shorts like MrMels video? With it mounted on the motor plate? That is the only thing I didn't check with my last failure. I'm holding another one of these ESC's in my hand right now...and am very nervous to try it!
All that said, I'm rooting for Georges and his team! I desperately want this thing to work!!

You got one back already? They called me today, tried to give me the esc WITHOUT the sbec..said it would be LATE April for the one I had
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollin_3z View Post
You got one back already? They called me today, tried to give me the esc WITHOUT the sbec..said it would be LATE April for the one I had
No sir..this is not the RMA of the one that I mailed back to Scorpion.
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:48 AM   #11
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thanks MrMel for the adress. I contact them right away.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:13 AM   #12
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Dear Neohp

Please kindly check the PM message for the detail of RMA

Thank you
Richard
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:59 AM   #13
neohp
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Thanks Richard. That was fast. I'll send the esc + motor with the rma number asap.

Was so anxious to fligh my long awaited Goblin...
Damned.... grounded
Well all things come to those who wait....

Last edited by neohp; 03-21-2012 at 06:35 AM..
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:52 AM   #14
Georges van Gansen
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HI G2000driver
how long before we do some thing? well, not long at all, we take care of problems immediately.

Pattern? sorry, I will love to know what pattern, from December until now, we have had I think more or less 10 fire ( I'm not in the office so I'm not totally sure on this) on the V series ESC, out of a batch of 1000 ESC shipped and sold or given to sponsor pilots and test pilots, since all the shops are out of stock of them, i guess they are nearly all in use now.

on those case of fire, so far most case has been identified to be related to motor failures, 2 case of fire due to crash, we have 2 or 3 case that we can not identify the reason of failure that caused the fire, and can only attribute that to component failure of isolate defect in the PCB, so i can not see there is a failure pattern constant to a design fault, as i said in the other post few days ago, making a ESC that handle >8 or 9KW peak of power and 100% fire proof in any circumstance is not possible, no one making ESC for our hobby can achieve that ( as far as I know), a model heli will not fly with a ESC like a brick, so protection is not possible to be as robust as an industrial motor driver that are design to run with 1 type of motor and heavy weight with all kind of software and hardware protection.

But again, my self and my team are constantly working on new designs and trying new concept to make it safer and better with higher efficiency and a higher degree of safety, we will not stop as long as my company is still here, and for customers that has a problem with our products, we will always try to take care of them the best we can, for me this is not just an business, it's a passion to be able to reach the top.


Quote:
Originally Posted by G200driver View Post
Sorry for your lose....I can't help but wonder how long before Scorpion does something about these controls. The first few you have to give benefit of doubt, but this is clearly a pattern, and something is clear going wrong with these controllers. Good luck with this matter.

.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:30 PM   #15
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George,

After re-reading my post, I can see where it seems that I'm slamming Scorpion. I've edited that post as it was not my intention..Your passion and commitment to the hobby is very clear... I love your motors..I fly them...

.I had one of the 1000 controllers, but I sold it as I was concerned about fire or failure after seeing the reports..

I know that if you just sent out free controllers to everyone claiming to have a failure, that you not stay in business, as you can not "idiot proof" a product..someone will always screw soemthing up no matter how hard you try to make it failure proof.. But the down time that some of these guys are experiecing while their esc's and motors are being shipped to and from, checked out, replaced or whatever is what truely keeps my from flying your controller. If I had a failure, I'd either have to wait weeks, or months, or buy another controller while waiting on the failed one to be fixed..

I'm rooting for Scorpion on this matter, and look forward to flying one in the future.

Jim
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:14 PM   #16
Georges van Gansen
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Hi Jim
Thank you for your rely on this, I do understand the downtime is some thing painfully to endure when you want to go and just have a good flight.
we are in the process to have out distributor to be equipped to test and decide for the RMA process to be done locally , our German distributor has just finish a training to do that and shortly all major distributor will have the same information on how to do this, so this will speed up the process of RMA very soon.
Hope this will allow you to try our esc soon.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
on those case of fire, so far most case has been identified to be related to motor failures, 2 case of fire due to crash, we have 2 or 3 case that we can not identify the reason of failure that caused the fire, and can only attribute that to component failure of isolate defect in the PCB, so i can not see there is a failure pattern constant to a design fault, as i said in the other post few days ago, making a ESC that handle >8 or 9KW peak of power and 100% fire proof in any circumstance is not possible, no one making ESC for our hobby can achieve that ( as far as I know), a model heli will not fly with a ESC like a brick, so protection is not possible to be as robust as an industrial motor driver that are design to run with 1 type of motor and heavy weight with all kind of software and hardware protection.
This info is very informative and reassures me about the product. I think that what makes this credible is how Georges is handling the issues with what appears to be very honest replies. My ESC is the mutts nutts and I remain 100% confident in it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:26 PM   #18
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I have three of these units all working with HKIII 4035 series motors and all very happy right now! :-) I just can't wait for the end of April ... have a new Whiplash waiting for one of these right now!
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:14 PM   #19
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Failure added to the HV ESC Failure List.

Scott
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:35 AM   #20
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Georges is very honest and a gentleman
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