Mystery of the 6* explained - Page 2

nwmtech · 04-14-2012, 10:05 PM

That 100% sounds like too low of a tail gain.

Little irony for you... ran into a situation today where a local pilot was adjusting the gain on his BeastX. He had the same exact problem you have where when he would pitch pump it the tail would swing at least 15-20*. I told him to raise his gain. He replied and said he couldn't because it would wag in a hard turn if he did. I flew it myself and no more than 5' into a hard inverted funnel the tail began a HUGE wag back in forth. Quite voilent actually. We brought the heli in and found his boom clamp and one boom strut was loose. Went back through the tail and checked everything.

Upon flying it the second time I ended up 16 points higher on the tail gain and it held like a rock. Just an reminder to check all mechanics

9sec240 · 07-18-2012, 08:36 PM

I was just picked up a Blade 300 X and checked for a blue light at 6° and it was. I decided to check to see when it turned blue and found that to be at about 3° and stayed blue till aileron was maxed out at about 10-11°.

According to the manual blue at 6° and move on to the next step... according to the OP, it sounds more like we are looking for the light to turn blue AT about 6°. So I guess my question is: What are the effects of getting a blue light early? Should I be looking to make changes to reach blue closer to the 6° mark?

desertstalker · 07-18-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9sec240

According to the manual blue at 6° and move on to the next step... according to the OP, it sounds more like we are looking for the light to turn blue AT about 6°. So I guess my question is: What are the effects of getting a blue light early? Should I be looking to make changes to reach blue closer to the 6° mark?

Leave it as it is, getting blue early is fine as long as you have enough cyclic in total (you do). No need to over think this.

Mixmaster Pilot · 07-19-2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrapilot

So, if you get into a situation where the FBL overshoots and the tail stalls, the yaw increases, and what does the control loop do? Most would ADD more pitch, which is the opposite of what needs to happen to unstall the rotor. Ask a FW pilot who stalls his (upright) aircraft what happens when he pulls back on the stick attempting to break the stall…

Sorry Extra, but I thought I'd chime in here and make a rare correction of you.

The recommended recovery procedure from LTE is not to reduce AOA despite what many believe (including many heli pilots and a very experienced pilot who has recovered from LTE once actually).

I sat in a very interesting seminar with Tub Matherson, a former Army pilot that was actually involved in studying why the Bell OH-58 was getting into LTE and what was the best method to recover. He initiated LTE situations many times and had a graph of the recorded pedal inputs entering and exiting LTE.

Although I can't find the original presentation online, here is the recommended recovery procedure.

Quote:

Recommended Recovery Techniques
If a sudden unanticipated right yaw occurs the pilot should apply FULL left pedal and simultaneously move the cyclic forward to increase airspeed. If height permits, reduce power. Then adjust the controls to normal flight as yaw control is recovered. Collective pitch reduction will aid in arresting the yaw rate but may cause an increase in the rate of descent. Any large, rapid increase in collective to prevent ground contact may further increase the yaw rate and decrease main rotor rpm. If the rotation cannot be stopped and ground contact is imminent then an autorotation may be best. The pilot should maintain FULL left pedal until the rotation stops, and then maintain a constant heading.

helifanatics · 02-22-2013, 03:52 PM

WBFAir ... I ended up picking up a 450 TS (new frame design of 450 from vwinrc). Researched and found out the tail blowout was a common problem on 450's. if you haven't fixed the problem, i could share some of my fixes b/c i had the same happen to me on my 450 TS & 300X. not a complete fix, but found out the cause and was able to remedy enough to get some pretty good 3D without the blowout. let me know if you need any help!

- Scott (Unofficial Ambassador of the RC Heli World)

07-18-2012, 08:36 PM	#22
9sec240 Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicagoland	I was just picked up a Blade 300 X and checked for a blue light at 6° and it was. I decided to check to see when it turned blue and found that to be at about 3° and stayed blue till aileron was maxed out at about 10-11°. According to the manual blue at 6° and move on to the next step... according to the OP, it sounds more like we are looking for the light to turn blue AT about 6°. So I guess my question is: What are the effects of getting a blue light early? Should I be looking to make changes to reach blue closer to the 6° mark? __________________ Ivan There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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04-14-2012, 10:05 PM	#21
nwmtech Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bellingham, WA	That 100% sounds like too low of a tail gain. Little irony for you... ran into a situation today where a local pilot was adjusting the gain on his BeastX. He had the same exact problem you have where when he would pitch pump it the tail would swing at least 15-20*. I told him to raise his gain. He replied and said he couldn't because it would wag in a hard turn if he did. I flew it myself and no more than 5' into a hard inverted funnel the tail began a HUGE wag back in forth. Quite voilent actually. We brought the heli in and found his boom clamp and one boom strut was loose. Went back through the tail and checked everything. Upon flying it the second time I ended up 16 points higher on the tail gain and it held like a rock. Just an reminder to check all mechanics

02-22-2013, 03:52 PM	#25
helifanatics Registered Users Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: USA, California	WBFAir ... I ended up picking up a 450 TS (new frame design of 450 from vwinrc). Researched and found out the tail blowout was a common problem on 450's. if you haven't fixed the problem, i could share some of my fixes b/c i had the same happen to me on my 450 TS & 300X. not a complete fix, but found out the cause and was able to remedy enough to get some pretty good 3D without the blowout. let me know if you need any help! - Scott (Unofficial Ambassador of the RC Heli World)