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Blade 400 Blade Helicopters (eFlite) 400 Helicopters


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Old 04-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #1
Luvmyhelis
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Default Another Stretched 6s B400 joins the ranks.

Hey guys, just wanted to post up another addition to our custom B400 ranks. I have a friend working for the embassy in Bankok who sent a heli to be built. So I built him one. I do this for free by the way. It keeps me from getting too bored.

This started out with a well used plastic bodied running B400. All stock. I quickly tossed everything but the main shaft and plastic body into a scrap baggie and packed them away. Maybe he can use them later for something.

The very first thing I did was to outfit the newly cleaned plastic body with upgraded ceramic bearings. Then I created a new tail drive gear setup using the step up eflite gear. Lucky for me we were doing this since the step up upper aluminum gear fell off as I opened the baggie! Since we wanted to stretch this and add a new tail setup, most the belts are trex tooth styled. On this I wanted to stretch the boom out so that he could run up to 395mm blades. So I inserted a microheli 11t upper tail drive gear onto the shaft and filed the spacers so the belt is centered down the exact middle of the boom. Next I installed his new Tarot tail assembly. I quickly scrapped this! What a pile of poo. No matter what I did I couldn't get the tail shaft stable nor correctly square to the plates. Horrible machine work and horrible trex design. So the next thing I did was to machine double side plates to stabilize and correctly center the tail shaft using abec 5 bearings. Again, I still had horrible slider slop and this also limited my tail grip angles. So I scrapped the align copied tail altogether.

I ended up emailing Helihaven and using one of his earlier Vs1 raised tail systems. I installed the abec 5 flanged bearings throughout, then installed a new microheli pro slider that I modded with custom links and a custom bell crank to fit the new tail. I also installed ceramics in the tail grips to tighten up the slop and installed Kbdd blades. With the earlier tarot slider I couldn't get the blades tracking correctly. Now they are dead on. The raised tail also has this new B400 hovering absolutely flat!

Next I trimmed out the long boom guide inside the tail hub assembly so I had more boom movement in and out. Then cut a guide into my newly cut HK carbonfibre rod. Fit like a glove! Then I installed the new Hs5084 tail servo onto the boom behind the Gy401, installed the belt, pinned the raised tail onto the boom with the tail perfect vertical, and installed the new upgraded Trex 500 boom supports. Their extra length helps hold the longer boom more securely. I also cut the Trex pro horizontal stab servo rod guide wider to accept thicker rods. While the body was apart it fitted it with Trex 500 canopy pins and nutted them on the backside. Make sure when you do this that the servo arms clear!

Next, onto the motor mount. I ended up having Helihaven send me a myriad of differing thickness aluminum scrap stock and cut one of the 3mm plates to fit the motor mount. Then I filed the anodization off and fused them together with Arctic silver heat compound. This way if the motor got hot the compound would hold. The motor mount is now bulletproof. I drilled the holes to match and radiused the pinion hole, then installed the new ceramic bearing equipped, Rhino 10t, Scorp 2221-2010 in place and lined up the pinion with the new Microheli delrin main gears. I also pushed the one way up appx 1 mm to space the gears correctly. I don't know why but they always seat the one way too low. And if you don't do this the upper hub grinds against the middle bearing support. I also lube the one way with triflow.

Earlier my friend wanted to try and save some money and use the stock eflite esc and motor. But both his burned up over in Bankok! So I modified his old 25a eflite esc with a new heat sync and again using Arctic silver heat compound and a Turnigy 5a esc. The heat sync compound eflite uses is horrible! Nothing but a flimsy heat transfer matt. No wonder they burn up! I even use Arctic silver on the Ice50 esc! And on that, I also cut it apart and rerouted, shortened, and lengthened all the wiring. Then used braided covering and inside mounted it. Now it is safely imbedded inside the body, runs cool, and helps offset some of the extra weight from the raised tail stretch. And as you can see from the picture allows me the use of the outside side panel to mount the Ar7000 and use the sat on one of the boom supports. I had earlier mounted the Ar7000 inside for a cleaner look, but with the Ice 50 inside now it needed more space.

During this process a new flymentor was installed to help him with hover practice orientation and a flip of the switch bailout with his new DX7. I created a carbonfibre plate that mounts underneath the body, mounted the Flymentor gyro on Zeal tape and mounted the ground lock sensor forward, then shortened all the corresponding wire and wired the heli together.

Next, I paid attention to the skids. I bought a set of 550 carbonfibre skids from HK and cut them down so they are 450 width at the top, yet retain the 2 1/2 inches of ground clearance for extra room to compensate for the electronics hanging down under the body. They have a wider 500 stance, but with much beefier shortened 550 skid tubes. They are bulletproof! Great for grass flying and they also tied the body together into a stiffer platform. I admit, these are my favorite skid upgrade so far for a 450.

Next I installed the HS65mg servos, but reversed the ail/elev so they wouldn't bind against the forward rear dual servo control. Then installed a rare polished Sonix swash that I undercut the servo arms on so the swash clears the servo link ends. Then installed a new Tarot head that I spent endless hours on. I installed new Trueblood dampeners also and CF paddles. I am not a fan of the Tarot head. No matter what I did the bell/hiller arms are still sloppy on the bearings. I even pulled the factory installed bolts and installed allen head versions with solid threadless bearing surfaces to try and reduce the slop.

I tried this with Trueblood 350mm blades and also the HK 360mm versions which are far more responsive.Even so the bell/hiller arms are still sloppy. And in the pic you will notice the lettering upside down as they had it prebuilt incorrectly with the arms reversed. Great!!!!

Next the new Outrage 1300ma 6s batt was installed. The heli balanced perfectly! Then on to the canopy. I had to clearance the top of it to clear the higher Scorp motor. It sets exactly flush and allows the top of the motor to peek through. Beautiful!

I have to add that I balanced all the rotating parts to a T.

Tell you what, this heli is wicked fast! And completely docile when the FM is on. It also flies and hovers perfectly flat. And pretty smooth. No vibes. Still loving this 3 bearing main setup. But, I will be honest. If they had the Sonix/Cnc heli fiberglass frames available, I would have used one here. So much stiffer and easy to work around.

But sadly on flight #2 the new HS 5084 tail servo took a dump!

Hopefully they warrenty this servo with the shortened wiring?
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:50 PM   #2
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Nice work!
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 PM   #3
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You're my hero!

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Old 04-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #4
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Good stuff. I noticed that cnchelicopter is dropping some of its B400 stuffs. Sad aint it? All they would have to do is make tail boom brackets that accept 14mm tail booms and they would be back in business.

Someone should email Xmseller/Jeff.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:12 AM   #5
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Beautiful piece of work, LMH.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:22 PM   #6
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Thanks guys, Yeah, it is kinda sad. Our little B's are slowly going the way of the dodo bird. Looks like not far from now the B450 is gonna be the way to go with these. Oddly the market hasn't shifted towards the aftermarket options for them yet. So in the meantime it is still possible to build a perfect, vibe free, solid performing B400 with a little effort and thought.

I have to admit, it has been a while since I flew a plastic bodied B. Man, this thing is wildly responsive. Pitch pumps are insane. I also had to dial in some expo on the tail. The tiniest touch and that thing whips around like a cobra snake trying to bite something. All this power and very little body mass.

Right after loosing the tail servo on this and getting it back down to the ground in one piece, thanks to helihavens raised tail. It landed without tagging the tail blades since they were up so high, and the wider skid assembly kept it from tipping even at a full spin. I pulled out one of my heavier stretched fbl helis and took it up. It felt like flying a sherman tank compared to a humming bird on crack. So I added expo everywhere and dialed the pitch down, then added a set of much heavier Radix 350s and flybar weights. Hopefully this calms it down a little. A true 3D guy would give away a body part for this thing. Tons of power, and little weight. I think our fellow HeliFreak friend in Bankok has a heli now that he can grow into at any level.

Let me give you guys a little background on him. He pmd me one day totally frustrated. His B400s were flying piles. He couldn't even get one to hover much less stay in one piece for very long, and was ready to toss them in the garbage and quit the hobby. Now with a little help, not only has he expanded his fleet to include a number of B400s, but a few Trex 450s. And is in process of building his first 600.

Just a little help here and there and he was off and running! I get what have to be quite expensive ph calls from him as he progresses in his building and flying skills. So for us older guys that have mastered at least part of this hobby, I feel we have a responsibility to give back and help guys just like this when they are in need.

Plus, and this is huge. Somewhere along the journey, our hard drinking partying friend grew a soul. He looked around himself one day and realized that where he was living outside of Bankok, that there was an overwhelming amount of poverty. Life is hard over there for most. So he started going into the villages and donating part of his paychecks buying food and personally handing out care packages. Now, from what I can discern, he is probably giving away the greater part of each of his paychecks doing so and has become a genuine local hero. He suddenly grew up and became a seriously less selfish individual. And a pleasure to know!

So in a way, by helping him. His life effected mine.

A guy like this, I would build helis for for free for life!
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:53 PM   #7
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> He suddenly grew up and became a seriously less selfish individual.

Cool.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:23 PM   #8
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Or, maybe I finally did and just noticed? Now wouldn't that be something?
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:19 PM   #9
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Very nice man! Which do you like - the dual or 3 rotor tail better on this setup? Just ordered those skid frames from HK! Finally took out the heli parts again after sitting in the closet for a year
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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Personally I like the 4 bladed one best....
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:31 PM   #11
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thats pretty wild looking.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:49 PM   #12
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The three bladed tails are horrible for tracking issues. I bet there is an easy 15 hours into just the three bladed version and it is still throwing off tracking vibes that simply cannot be taken any further out without machining a new hub. The four blade tracks better, but both are plagued with crap align grips that are hard to get machined correctly. On helihavens new 4 blade I sent him some very very elite german made grips that are precise little works of art. Plus the three blade is mathmatically problematic in balancing and maintaining. Bump one blade or grip and it takes hours to get back into alignment. On the 4 blade it is almost overly simple to tweak a blade grip when it gets damaged.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:39 AM   #13
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Nice! Look forward to seeing these german grips. What size blades are you going with? In combination with the tail mechanics and frame, should look freakin sweet
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:04 AM   #14
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Personally I run Kbdd's. Not sure what Helihaven is going to do. Those grips were custom machined for an Fbl dual swashed cp head and they mistakenly sent me 250 sized grips. So now Helihaven is custom fabbing new grip pins for me. I needed to be able to run thicker blade roots to support the 6 360mm blades I need to run on it. Kind of the worlds first invert capible coaxial in the works. But the grips he now has off that head system are perfect for his new 4 bladed tail system he is fabbing up for himself. Not sure what kind of blades he is going to run. In the pic they look like stockers.

Here is a pic of those grips he is using on his tail, still mounted on the Dss head.

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #15
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I didn't see this in your post, sorry if I missed this- but are those the micro heli delrin gears? And if so, how do you like them?

Also, where can I buy those fancy main shaft bearings?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonRP_7743 View Post
I didn't see this in your post, sorry if I missed this- but are those the micro heli delrin gears? And if so, how do you like them?

Also, where can I buy those fancy main shaft bearings?
Well for one, none of the stock gears rotate concentrically. Not a single one. Eflight nor Align. So they induce wobbles and vibes into the rotating assembly and critically reduce how tight you can set gear gap. Microheli cnc cuts the gears while on true center, so the gears rotate almost perfectly without a tight side nor loose side. Plus do to this they balance. Plus the Delrin is self lubricating. This causes them to wear better and run silently. Lots of plusses here!

The 10mm ceramics can be found at Amain hobbies as well as good Abec3 mainshaft bearings. I prefer ceramics due to the fact most are a minimum of abec 5 to 7 rated. Tight and smooth. This really comes in handy when precision balancing the mainshaft. I like helis that run like swiss watches.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #17
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That is awesome info! Question: can mainshaft bearings be replaced without splitting the frame ?
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:36 PM   #18
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Haha that works out nice.. Are the Kbdd's your using the 61mm's?

Regarding your ceramics, what size did you end up boring out your braces for?
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonRP_7743 View Post
That is awesome info! Question: can mainshaft bearings be replaced without splitting the frame ?
Yes, all you really need to do is loosen the bearing clamp areas and they pop right out.

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Haha that works out nice.. Are the Kbdd's your using the 61mm's?

Regarding your ceramics, what size did you end up boring out your braces for?

Yes, and no. I tried both. I use the 61s on all my two blade systems now and the shorter 59s on the 3 and higher versions.

And on the machined mainshaft supports on the other carbonfibre b400 version I fly, Helihaven machined them out to accept the 11mm x 5mm align sized bearings for me. Incredible workmanship. His work also cleaned up some bearing misalignment issues while he was at it. The factory holes were less than optimal we might say. So the shaft rolls soooooo much smoother now.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #20
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Its great that you are able to work with HH so closely to get exactly the tail you want. I assume he has ocd as bad as you or else he probably would have stopped responding to you weeks ago

Im hoping he would be willing to make a tail like yours for me, it really does look crazy nice! When do you plan on getting the 4 blade version back and setup? I want to see more pictures of your overall project
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