6s vs 12s

[kenobi36]

I understand that. If we will use same wires, same connectors we will have more loss.
8% is little bit to much, I never felt the wires to heat up even in hot days after fligh :-)
I had only 4mm gold bananas heat up in rex 600 but I changed it to 6mm and problem solved.

But again if we compare system:
Two batteries will have 2 times longer wires than one.
Theres gona be 2x more battery connectors.
In some cases 2x smaller capacity lipo will have thinner wires beacouse it can give less current.
160A esc will have thicker wires than 80A HV ESC.

So the power loss will be little bit better for HV system but no big enough to say that 6s system is not effiecent.

There are many other ways of getting more effiecient flight, ex my stretched Gaui X5 with 6s5000 and 600mm blades, only 2,9KG, :-)

[sherman89]

I fly both 600 scale and pod/boom heli's on 6S-5000 paks and in the case of the scale heli if flown scale and with a lower HS then the 6S paks will work just fine because of the reduced work load but in the case of the pod/boom heli and put 3-D in the picture the game changes with 600 blades considerable. The 6S paks will heat up much more than the 12S set-up----12S provides a higher voltage with a lower amp load creating less heat compared to the 6S pak-----for the same flight time and style the 6S pak will create about 20F more on the average over the 12S pak---that is not a lot but if you are running temps in the 115-120 range with 12S then the extra 20F will push the 6S pak over the 140F limit with the end result of rapid life loss.

[kenobi36]

What lipo packs you use for 12s setup?

[sherman89]

Gen Ace 6S-5300 and Gen Ace6S- 3300

[kenobi36]

2x5300?

[sherman89]

2X3300

[kenobi36]

So the couse of lower temperature of lipos is not 12s setup but higher capacity.
If you would use 2x3300 in parallel then they would heat up less than one 5000 pack.

[sherman89]

The temperature is reduced by the higher voltage with a lower amp draw, capacity will determine the length of time of the flight.

[kenobi36]

In 6s setup with 2 parallel packs you have also 50% amp draw in each pack :-)

[sherman89]

Originally Posted by kenobi36

In 6s setup with 2 parallel packs you have also 50% amp draw in each pack :-)

And so????

[lerpak]

I'm running 600 esp on 6s 5000 optipower lipos scorpion motor and esc comes down after 7mins of 3d with hardly any warmth at all and the heli is not an underpowered dog it has plenty of power
how come you guys are getting so much heat is it cheap lipos::

[Keyrigger]

Yes. Running a twin parallel pack of a higher total capacity than a single 6s battery will reduce load on the entire pack and give you more time than a single large capacity. I run, for the time being, two 4000mAH packs on a scale helicopter. I only fly 6 minutes in the air, not including the spool-up, and return 1875mAH into each pack for a total of 3750mAH used. When I tried to run it as a single 4000mAH pack, the battery would only last for a 4.5minute flight but would use 3500mAH. That was over the 80% guideline and the battery would also get very warm, but not too hot to handle. Now, the temperature per battery is lower, the draw per pack is lower, and the overall flight time is increased with a wide margin of safety. The only drawback to my situation is that I need a much more powerful motor so rather than try to find a more powerful 6s with the same kv rating, I will go with a similar size but much more powerful 12s motor and the batteries are already in place for it. I will get roughly the same flight times but a lot more punch.

As an example of a 12s system in a 13.5 pound scale helicopter with two 3300mAH packs, I fly it for the same 6 minutes in the air and return anywhere from 1600 to 1700mAH per pack depending on how hard and fast I fly it. Hope this answers a few questions. Take care.

Don

[sherman89]

lerpak
If your flight time is 7.5 minutes and you are flying 3-D then I would have to say your 3-D is extremely weak with a low HS or you replace your paks after every flight or you do not have a true sense of temps----this sounds like a lot of crappola to me.

[kenobi36]

Originally Posted by sherman89

And so????

Same situation as 12s setup, there is no advantage to 12s setup.

What I'm trying to show here is that poeple taking out wrong conclusions after changing 6s to 12s setup.
1.
They say lipos are running cooler but they don't mention that they use higher capacity of lipos.
2.
They say that have more power but they don't mention that they have used higher power motor.
3.
In most cases the 12s is little more effecient but people don't mention that the have changed the old not efficient motor to expensive hi-tech motor with better magnets, better windings and better fan.

In most cases they could stay with 6s setup, look for better high quality motor, use little more capacity lipos and they would see same benefits as after changing to 12s setup.

Problem is that there is not many 6s motors on the market that we can choose for replacement.

In case of heavy 600 class there is problem in high power system where we exceed 200A on 6s setup, so going to 12s is more safe.

But its funny for me when I read about 12s Gaui X5, 12s MSH Protos 500 and other.

I actualy have stretched X5 to 600mm blade, rewinded Turnigy 4030 motor which is somethin between scorpion 4025 and 4035 in size and it flies almost like my 700 class goblin, it has almost same power to weight ratio and I get same time flights, 4-6 minuts on 6s5000 depending on if tis hard or soft 3D.

Rewinding was made by my my friend, here is some photo



So in most case its not the 12s which is advantage but what components we have used and becouse of that we are limited by avaliable motors on the market and sometimes we have no choice and we have to choose 12s setup.

[lerpak]

sherman89 come and fly it if you like maybe you you don't know as much as you think you do

[sherman89]

Exceedingly high temperatures----constantly above 130F destroys Li-po's very quickly. Higher voltage with less amp draw equals the same work load. Lower amp draw makes for less internal battery heat. Using a 600 sized heli with 600 mm blades and the same flight regime requiring the same work load----turning 600mm blades at 2250 the 6S pak will produce more internal heat over the 12S pak doing the same job. You can use what ever motor/gear combination that you want but at the end of the day to turn that head at 2250 under severe 3-D conditions the 6S system will produce more internal battery heat compared to the 12S system. Excessive heat kills Li-po's----it is that simple.

[kenobi36]

How much less curent is drawing 12s system compared to 6s system?

[sherman89]

I can not tell you specific numbers but the fact that the 12S system generates less internal battery heat than the 6S system doing the same job tells me that less amps are being consumed----it is the amp draw that creates heat---less amps less heat. Get your self a heat gun and start documenting your temps for the battery, motor and ESC----it will be a good education.

[kenobi36]

Originally Posted by sherman89

I can not tell you specific numbers

No coments

Its no mater if it is 50Vx20A=1000W or it is 25Vx40A=1000W
12s: 20A draw through two 6s3400 lipos connected serial. 20A on each lipo.
6s: 40A draw through two 6s3400 lipos connected parallel. 20A per each lipo.
In both cases you have same 20A draw on each lipo that means same heat.

[sherman89]

I guess my heat gun just lies to me ----WTF!!!!