HKIII 4035

[Danny_Swe]

xfactor: yes heat shrink instead of fg sleeve because I didn't have correct size. But there is 4mm fg sleeve on the terminations and 2,5mm on the motor cables.

Stolla: have measured with temp gun on the hottest spot while aiming through the bottom holes and go a little up/down. Haven't glued the cables, only protective coat spray on the bottom part.

HeliG: Ambient temp about 25-30C now in summer, these days have been really warm. Crocofence with heat conductive epoxy so it transfers really well. Some say vbar-gov generates more heat also, don't know. And timing 18 and pwm 12 is quite "hard" settings I suppose, pwm 14 worst that I had before with original wind to get best power.

All: Yeah I don't care for the heat issue now, It's hot but I know it's no problems. Before I thought I had problem so that's why I rewinded the motor thinking I would get alot cooler motor, but that problem I had still exists so it was not the motor anyway. Well. I guess my wind is ok anyway. It's more enjoyable at low rpm now with same flight time and same temperature (about the same I suppose, didn't measure before). My YGE ESC beeps sometimes because of heat that I think is transferred from the motor mount that is about half a millimeter away from it. I could try moving the ESC in some way but yesterday I had put aluminium tape on it to shield it and did some flights with regular flying without beep so I guess it's quite ok now. It's very rare for us to have such warm days anyways. I was just speculating here a little on how an alternative way of winding it would have maybe improved a little. 1,25 wire and lower kv so I can run the motor (and thus the fan) at higher speed would have done it I suppose. Thanks for answers!

[Stolla]

yes I think its more your esc settings, I'm running jive with auto timing, vbar gov is very aggressive , maybe try lower timing

[xfactor6]

so from what i read on this thread, 5+6 1.4 mm gives you 510kv and 5+5 gives you 560? what would 5+7 gives you 490 (i am assuming this is possible)? or or somehting lower? just want to get closest to what i had before 500kv. or should i just stick to 5+6 1.4mm(510kv) and that would be the closest? also how would i wrap 5+7 1.4mm?

Thanks for the help.

Edit: just saw that 5+5 is for 1.6 mm wire. so what would be the winding for 1.4mm?

[ZuvieleTeile]

For determining a new Kv from a known old Kv with a known number of windings:

Old number of windings divided by the new number of windings times the known Kv.
In your case from above:
11:12*510+467

[xfactor6]

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

For determining a new Kv from a known old Kv with a known number of windings:

Old number of windings divided by the new number of windings times the known Kv.
In your case from above:
11:12*510+467

looks like berts original was 10 windings in D from his original post, so

(10/(5+7))X500=

.8333333X500KV= 416 KV ?

[HeliFX]

don't forget to factor in the the shift from Delta to Y or YY on your overall Kv value.

[xfactor6]

Originally Posted by HeliFX

don't forget to factor in the the shift from Delta to Y or YY on your overall Kv value.

how? to YY

[xfactor6]

Found this calculator online according to it 10 turns in D is 500 wich is right, then 2GroupparallelY/Star (wich i assume is YY) would be 577. is this calculator correct? see attached

[HeliFX]

I found that .xls file when I first started my research however ended up not using it after doing comparisons on its accuracy. I find it best to do the math yourself to really understand how it all works.
I created a chart with .xls which give me the Kv , copper % based on number of turns.

top of my head can remember where on Powercroco site but he has a section which explains the difference from going from Delta to say YY. Its about a 15% jump in Kv value.

eg
YY takes twice as much as Y, YYYY takes 4x as many windings for the same ns(Kv)


DELTA gives 1.73 higher power and amp draw than STAR

DELTA Kv (RPM) = 1.73 higher than STAR Kv while the Kt (torque) = 1.73 lower

Hope that makes any sense.

Best to do some research to get a better understanding.
If I find the link on Powercroco I'll post it. Mind you its in Germany so the translator can be a little tricky a specially with technical notes.

Originally Posted by xfactor6

Found this calculator online according to it 10 turns in D is 500 wich is right, then 2GroupparallelY/Star (wich i assume is YY) would be 577. is this calculator correct? see attached

[ZuvieleTeile]

Thanks for jumping in helifx, I was busy in the afternoon.

@ xfactor6
forget the original 10D winding.
Bert wound it with 5+6 YY and came up with 510 Kv.
The wire diameter is not important here.
You can calculate from that number up or down with the formula from above.
Which motor are we talking about? HK 4035? Are you going to rewind a motor, or is it a kit you bought?

And remember, those Kv numbers are not a fixed value. They differ a lot with various ESCs.
And a lot of ESCs have adjustable timing.
E.g. doing tests with a 60A Align ESC with low/mid and high timing lets the Kv go from 474 through 510.
A Jive with its auto timing is always on the low side of the Kv spectrum.

Please let us know, if you understood the differences between D,Y, and YY like helifx mentioned above.

[xfactor6]

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Thanks for jumping in helifx, I was busy in the afternoon.

@ xfactor6
forget the original 10D winding.
Bert wound it with 5+6 YY and came up with 510 Kv.
The wire diameter is not important here.
You can calculate from that number up or down with the formula from above.
Which motor are we talking about? HK 4035? Are you going to rewind a motor, or is it a kit you bought?

And remember, those Kv numbers are not a fixed value. They differ a lot with various ESCs.
And a lot of ESCs have adjustable timing.
E.g. doing tests with a 60A Align ESC with low/mid and high timing lets the Kv go from 474 through 510.
A Jive with its auto timing is always on the low side of the Kv spectrum.

Please let us know, if you understood the differences between D,Y, and YY like helifx mentioned above.

I have the same motor as Bert hkiii 4035-500 want to rewind get the same kv as I had before so 500 kv bought 1.4mm wire so just wanted to figure out how many turns to wind it to get closer to 500 kv. But 510 I think will be fine. I'm trying to understand but piecing it as I go. Thanks all


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[_Dekker]

Most of us count the winds as number of wires in the slot. So if you look at the first post you will see you need 10turns for D and 11 turns for YY (CAD picture). This will get you around 510rpm/V n spec for the mkIII with the 10poles. As ZuvieleTeile pointed out, kv/n spec also depends on esc used. Most winders like myself reference to an YGE with 18deg timing to make comparisons easier.
Also, a lot of people use headspeed calcs like mrmels and expect us to wind within a few rpms/V. It does not work that way: we can play with the terminations to get smaller steps but in the end we have a discrete/whole number of turns so for the 4035-III the next n spec values from 510(yy) will be around 470 and 560.

[xfactor6]

Originally Posted by _Dekker

Most of us count the winds as number of wires in the slot. So if you look at the first post you will see you need 10turns for D and 11 turns for YY (CAD picture). This will get you around 510rpm/V n spec for the mkIII with the 10poles. As ZuvieleTeile pointed out, kv/n spec also depends on esc used. Most winders like myself reference to an YGE with 18deg timing to make comparisons easier.
Also, a lot of people use headspeed calcs like mrmels and expect us to wind within a few rpms/V. It does not work that way: we can play with the terminations to get smaller steps but in the end we have a discrete/whole number of turns so for the 4035-III the next n spec values from 510(yy) will be around 470 and 560.

ok i got it, thanks

[HeliFX]

xfactor,

I had the same confusion that copper O.D. played a role in the overall Kv value when I first started.
It has none however copper % (O.D>) play's a factor on motor power and efficiency etc.

number of turns (coils) around each stator tooth and the resulting termination determines
your Kv however as others have pointed out there are other variables at play which certainly influences the overall Kv but not in a dramatic shift.

I believe powercroco has additional schematics like zig-zag which I have yet to use which if I'm not mistaken help to reach your target Kv.

my first motor 12N8P 4025 had short half turns to better hit my 1100Kv. Straight turns of 4 or 5 caused value to either to high or to low from target 1100.

[xfactor6]

new question for everyone, i am putting on new iso plates made of fg on top and bottom, i was using a dremel and i knicked a couple of spots in the stator and made them shinny. is that ok or does it harm the stator at all?

[ZuvieleTeile]

Next time you do that, you will be hand cuffed, the heli taken away from you for at least 6 months and your motor confiscated as evidence.

Don't worry. All is fine.

[xfactor6]

Nice, they will have to kill me before then, I'm not giving up my goblins without a fight

[xfactor6]

Practicing

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[xfactor6]

One more, I have to be better at preventing the wires from twisting a little.

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[Vinger]

Well eventually finished my first 4035. n-Spec turned out to be 540kV on YGE. Wound with 1.32mm 6+5 turns. Had a huge struggle with the cleaning and prepping of the stator after removal of the old wires. Eventually just made new FG end plates and it wound relatively easy!! All finished tested and ready for the TDR. Next will be a 4530 rewound as the LE windings of Scorpion are really ugly!!!