First time inverted with 450 class.. Roll or flip?

[green4191]

Ok I can do just about anything with my mcpx but when I try to go inverted with a flip in the mcpx the tail blows out every time. Rolling inverted is no problem. I want to go ahead and give it a shot with my 450 but wonder should I expect tail issues with the 450 going inverted with a flip like my mcpx or is it easier to roll it? Just wondering what's best for the first time. Thanks!

[aloys24]

it should be a lot easier to roll the 450X! You should not have any tail blowout.

I still find flipping forward or backwards easier since i'm a noob!

[Chris Gardill]

As long as the heli doesn't have any setup or mechanical issues, you should expect no such performance issues with the tail. I've tweaked mine a little to suit the way I want it to feel but the tail on my 450x was rock solid straight out of the box. That said, flips should be fairly easy with the mCPX but they take practice and good collective management. The same good collective management will make flips with the 450 all the easier, too.

Me personally, although I've since begun trying more things with the 450 as of late, with basic orientation things like that (even inverted orientation like this), my rule was I did not try anything with the 450 that I couldn't do consistently on both the sim and the mcpx. With the basic stuff like that, I know that saved me several crashes that would have happened with the 450, fwiw. If you do want to attempt it, though, just make sure to give yourself plenty of altitude to recover if you don't make the collective transition smoothly. Go up a 100' or so and give it a shot but there's no reason it can't be done on the mcpx.

[green4191]

Thanks.. I will definitely have as much altitude as possible while still being able to see orientation.

[1sickvibe50]

450's generally like flipping better than rolling (i believe it has something to do with 120ccpm on a small heli) so i would do that for sure. however, before flipping for the first time with ur 450, accomplish inverted on ur mcpx first. try setting ur travel on ur rudder to 150 and 150 to give the most travel possable in hopes to avoid blowing out ur tail, then adjust ur D/R and expo to ur liking so it isnt too fast for u. i do not know how long u have had the mcpx or how many crashes it has seen so if this still occurs upgrade to the V2 tail then if it continues to persist i would buy a new tail rotor assuming u already have increased the length of it by 1 inch

[green4191]

It's a v2 and I've had it a little while. I don't know what the deal is I can fly inverted pretty good with the mcpx but the only way I can get inverted is by a roll. I'm starting to wonder if it's a motor problem or maybe the bearing in the swash is having a problem. I've been trying to figure that out for weeks now with no luck.. It's like the tail can't keep up with the added torque from the main blades with any hard cyclic pitch. The boom assembly I just replaced with no improvement.

[Raysun]

The MCPX is underpowered and the tail is not rock solid in loops etc. at least on my version.

I found the easiest way to experience upsidedowwny land is to enter a simple loop from fast FF. Get up about 100 feet, fast forward and smoothly pull back, and watch it go around. Reduce throttle at about the 2/3 way round to half stick, gravity will finish the loop for you.

Any good 450-500 gyro (GY401, GY520, 3G etc ) will have no trouble holding solid. And the 450's and up have lots of power to pull it around, don't even need collective management.

Once you can comfortably loop, tighten the loop into a back flip with collective (negative pitch). Loops are easier than rolls. Back flips are the easiest, for forward flips a bit more nerve and collective management is needed.

Ray
MCPX (on the shelf)
450 GY401
500 GY520
500 3G
450X in the future, maybe.

[Sambuka]

Put the extended Raul boom on the mcpx, butcher one of your broken tail booms and make one then your mcpx will flip roll no problem. On 450 size try loops up really really high at full speed going away from your self. That way you are 2 mistakes high and can easily catch it. Practice on the sim the stick moves to get it party programmed in your head

[fastlaneak]

Backflip 30 or 40 feet high, at about a 45 degree angle with tail pointed towards you from a stable hover. So easy a cave man can do it! Tail is rock solid, don't touch rudder just a liitle negative when upside down. I believe thats the easiest.

[mtuccio]

Originally Posted by green4191

It's a v2 and I've had it a little while. I don't know what the deal is I can fly inverted pretty good with the mcpx but the only way I can get inverted is by a roll. I'm starting to wonder if it's a motor problem or maybe the bearing in the swash is having a problem. I've been trying to figure that out for weeks now with no luck.. It's like the tail can't keep up with the added torque from the main blades with any hard cyclic pitch. The boom assembly I just replaced with no improvement.

Flipping the mCPX can be tricky because of the location of the anti rotation pin is not on center with the pivot ball so there are some coupling that occurs in the move and the heli will not roll straight over. It takes practice and understanding to figure this out and is also something that will be corrected by a good heli pilot naturally because they are watching the heli and the disc closely as it comes over. If you want to roll the mCPX straight you need to get one of the new Microheli X frames and swashplates.

You really should pactice tons on the mCPX before you do this on the 450. It will feel different on the 450 but will be easier once you get over the pucker factor. The hard thing when doing moves on the bigger models is that your fingers tend to tighten up a bit as you get more and more money in the air. Trust me on this...It's a natural thing and the 450 doesn't crash anything like the mCPX will. You tend to loose all fear of the crash when you fly an mCPX because you figure that you can just pick it up, push the gear back into place, and toss it back into the air. It just takes time and you need to have the comfort level when doing things for the first time.

Hope this herlps...

[Talesin]

Er... I'd somewhat disagree here. If you can hover your 450X and perform basic sport flight, you should easily be able to take it up to 100 feet or so, flip on idle-up and hold the cyclic in just about any direction and get a good, steady-tracking flip/roll. It floats a LOT more than the mCPX, and generally the problem will more be applying positive pitch too early, ending up with the heli scooting back/forward/sideways a bit. Complete the roll/flip and return to a hover.

Rolls are faster (and usually lead me to apply collective too early and shift sideways a bit). Flips take longer, so your thumb moves slower just watching it, and (so far) tend to stay in place more often than not.

The mCPX is severely underpowered by comparison, and the side AR pin (off from the axial swash movement at least, really should have been dog-legged up to be on the same line as the servo balls) doesn't help matters by adding in aileron partway through a flip.

[Error401]

Originally Posted by Talesin

The mCPX is severely underpowered by comparison, and the side AR pin (off from the axial swash movement at least, really should have been dog-legged up to be on the same line as the servo balls) doesn't help matters by adding in aileron partway through a flip.

Dylan at Astroid Designs makes a little carbon thing that does just that, as well as a delrin AR bracket. Both of which cleaned up he controls on mine. Try a Spin 16K 8T and a SR120 tail with a Walkera 4G3 tail rotor. Holds like a rock, and has stoopid power.

[Talesin]

Yes, I'm aware. Noting the stock to stock differences though between the 450X and mCPX, for the thread starter.

On one of my mCPXes, I'm planning to go with a MH X-frame and replacement rear ball, and an HP05s/120 tail. Don't think I really need the power of the Spin just yet, and if I was laying out for that I'd also be going BL on the tail.

But that's for the BL mCPX forum, rather than here.

[InFocus]

As someone else mentioned, I think a stationary flip, while high and tail in is the easiest first move.
No worries about a tail blowout doing this, even if you too heavy on the collective and cyclic, it has plenty of power to keep up, and is much easier than flipping the mCPX.

During the flip, basically pull back on the cyclic (up elevator) and just keep it there until the heli is all the way around. Go negative on the collective when upside down, and then back positive when its upright again.. Then recover.


The first flip will be a thrill.
The 2nd flip: oh, man, I really can do it.
The 3rd flip: this is way easier than I thought.
...

[dl5973]

flip is easier than a roll

tail will not blow out on the 450x for a simple flip or roll.

the heli in general will roll faster than it flips so if you stuff the roll you have less time to save it.

[green4191]

Thanks for all the input guys... I'm gonna take her up at least 75 feet or so and give it a shot.

[rhodesengr]

I just started flipping and rolling a few weeks ago. There is no comparison between the 450X and the mCPx. I see no hint of tail blow out on my 450x. besides the much better tail power, the BeastX system is much more advanced than the mCPx system. mCPx has no piro compensation for example. try a piro with and mCPx when there is wind. It will take off on you as soon as you turn it. The 450X will piro with no cyclic adjustment.

I did two connected front flips first. Front flip to inverted, then front flip to normal. Dont stay inverted too long at first. I was nervous as hell but its really pretty easy. o it up hig and out in front of you a ways. Do it with little or no wind. Rolls are really about the same I find.

[Eleven_Bravo]

The MCPX and the 450x are not in the same league. I love my MCPX alot dont get me wrong but its never going to fly like my 450X.

I was flying yesterday morning on a 60% throttle curve in idl2 (yes the same % the manual has you set for a normal hover mode) and the tail held solid even during ail tic tocs, stationary and ail rolls. I bogged the HS down a lil more than I liked so I set it to 70% this morning and will leave it there. My point is dont worry about the tail blowing out unless you have setup issues or mechanical issues.

I would enter inverted the same as you do with your MCPX just without fear of the tail blowing out it wont. I say that because thats the way you have practiced it the most. I personally went inverted the first time from a forward stationary flip. Fly HIGH so you have time to recover if something does go wrong. You should be fine.

[FailureToFly]

Flips are actually really easy on the 450x.

The MCPX cannot in any way be compared IMHO to how the 450X flips.

The MCPX is so underpowered it's akin to coming out of a corner in a car and having the engine stop whenever you hit the gas that little too hard.

If you can consistently flip the sim, take the X up high and give it a try.