Scorpion HK 4535 Kit

[powercroco]

I wind for fun, never looking on needed time.

you should look not only on winding:

preparing the statorpackage, insulating and switching the wires and mounting the motor and testing it needs as much time as the pure winding.

[kimmik]

Ralph can I ask, what benefits and negatives are there to 10p vs 14p, in terms of efficiency? Assume you're winding both with same copper fill factor, same volume of magnet, to achieve same kV.

The 14p version would have lower turns and thicker copper, giving lower winding resistance, and commutate faster than 10p. So my guess is that 14p has higher iron loss, lower copper loss, and higher power rating. Is that correct? If so, why do we not see more 14p for helis?

Thanks!
Kim

[powercroco]

you loose to much in efficiency.
we tested this (10P vs. 14P) also with pyro 700; scorpion 4235 and scorpion 50xx.
the "cross over point" where the 14P variation becomes better than 10P is at really low n spec!

the new "pyro 800" is a 14P heli-motor again, just like also the "kora-top-heli" types have been some years ago.
unfortunally I had no chance for a "deep examination" including a complete measuring so far.

edit for the not motorbuilding guys:
as it is well known just in making the pyro kontronik went the opposite way - using the same shape and magnets from kora top with 14poles into the pyro with 10poles.

[Dulgonn]

quite simple.. buy one

[powercroco]

of course you just have done it

you should be able to remember:
I have a lot more unused motors into my "storage" as I can count wth my fingers - so I won't have a use for one more. but may be, some wants to know more about it or wants making use of the still given room for improvements also in this motor - it is "only" machine winded.

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by powercroco

of course you just have done it

you should be able to remember:
I have a lot more unused motors into my "storage" as I can count wth my fingers - so I won't have a use for one more. but may be, some wants to know more about it or wants making use of the still given room for improvements also in this motor - it is "only" machine winded.

This is actually a great way to do it, crocco gets to have a detailed look at the motor and see how good it is for a re-wind and someone who wants it gets an awesome motor. Win-Win.

[Stolla]

wonderful offer, been looking for 850 to crocodile-ise, but think i can get one? So if anyone knows where i can please lemme know, seems by the time i get one the offer will have expired then ill have to hippopotomise it! 800 is too small being a 5020 really.

[powercroco]

some thoughts and a little story....

an (just 2 years old) 4535 with 4+3x1,9YY was into the fastest heli on the 2012 ircha speedcup (unlimited class)

http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=445422

it's the same motor was used as further development after the 2010 world record event and also in banshee in the 2011 Dachau speed cup.
this special motor had a long travel: 2011 it was used by banshee crew into the dachau speed cup, then I sent it to bjarke (taiwan), from there it came on hidden ways to the american speed tdr team ....
almost around the world.......

at IRCHA 2012 the pilot was able to reach 231.5 km/h with it.
and in addition (the pilot wrote so) this was his 5. flight with this configuration!
my congratulation for this result!

this is just more than 30-40km/h faster than the TDR was 2 years ago with a same motor in it (190-200km/h average)!
on the other hands it is still about 10km/h slower than the 2011 world record by speed banshee (242km/h average).

using round about the same power the better training of the pilot and also the smaller fuselage is beside the better motor the reason, why banshee still was faster also in the 100m longer wr- distance. (100m preflight in constant height!)

both helis look like brothers in mind:



main difference:
the "Speed-TDR" used 4535 (4+3x1,9YY); 14S and YGE 320UHV
the Speed Banshee had a special 5035 evo (5+4 x1,9YY) 16S and YGE 160UHV

the second tdr in open class was steered by a henseleit team pilot.
this speed machine was slower than "speed-tdr" and also only 6km/h (!) faster compared to used by the best team-pilot serial TDR helicopter!

seen over all:
more power can only bring succes, if the aerodynamics of the heli fits for the targeted speed.
the main goal for further developments should be the blades - power they just have more than enough under their canopies.

[kimmik]

Perhaps the change in 2yrs is better explained by battery advance.

[powercroco]

no, there was no substantial change in batteries since 2010.

imo you need primary the best pilot skills.
have a look again on stefan segerers results with the stock tdr with only stock aerodynmics and gear!!
sure, he had not better batteries than the other team pilot in the unlimited class.

I also see this in my own results in speedplanes - if I give my material in the hands of a really good pilot, he can go much faster than I with my model.

after the skills follow aerodynamics and then (3.place) comes the power.
steering settings and blades are a part of the aerodynamic complex.
power includes battery, ESC motor and gear.

just like into formula 1!
you can't replace pilot skills complete with power if you arn't able to use the advantage of it. but you need the best in all parts to be really the fastest and not only one of the fast.....

the seen at several "horizontal speed cups" validates this.
only my personal opinion.

[Vinger]

Originally Posted by powercroco

no, there was no substantial change in batteries since september 2010.

imo you need primary the best pilot skills.
have a look again on stefan segerers results with the stock tdr with only stock aerodynmics and gear!!
sure, he had not better batteries than the other team pilot in the unlimited class.

I also see this in my own results in speedplanes - if I give my material in the hands of a really good pilot, he can go much faster than I with my model.

after the skills follow aerodynamics and then (3.place) comes the power.
steering settings and blades are a part of the aerodynamic complex.
power includes battery, ESC motor and gear.

just like into formula 1!
you can't replace pilot skills complete with power if you arn't able to use the advantage of it. but you need the best in all parts to be really the fastest and not only one of the fast.....

the seen at several "horizontal speed cups" validates this.
only my personal opinion.

+1 on this, used to race cars for years, same principle, lots of hp with mediocre skill does not translate in winning!

[ElectricSheep]

Originally Posted by powercroco

some new photos about pyro:
http://www.rc-heli.de/board/showthre...90#post2128490

a 5020 package, 14 very fat magnets with high coverage for much torque.
seems a very thin backiron to close the magnetic circle - but it spares a lot of weight.

more evolution than revolution, but imo good made.

if someone has one for examination and rewinding - the first one will get it for free.

ralph

I know this is an older thread, but were you able to find a Pyro 800 or 850 to examine and rewind? If yes, I'm sure many would love to know your thoughts on the motor.

If no, would you like to examine & rewind a Pyro 850-24?

[powercroco]

someone just took this opportunity.
I will report about it soon and in an own thread.

but for sure Bert, Mauro or Hermann will be interested in examinating this motor too.

[GMAURO]

Originally Posted by powercroco

someone just took this opportunity.
I will report about it soon and in an own thread.

but for sure Bert, Mauro or Hermann will be interested in examinating this motor too.

ooo yes, more more and more interested to "touch" a big pyro. In the next week i will receive my first 800-48....

[ElectricSheep]

Originally Posted by powercroco

someone just took this opportunity.
I will report about it soon and in an own thread.

I look forward to reading your report!