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Blade 450 Blade 450 Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 06-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #1
CaptHal8HS
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Default B450 Pitch Range Seems Wrong...

Hello;
I did a short video of my pitch range on my stock B450. Can you have a look? I'm not getting full collective range, I think.
My bench is level in both directions and I am using my new RC Logger pitch gauge (which is totally awesome).
Any ideas?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:50 PM   #2
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wrong length on ballinks from servos, to swash, also, did you set 0 pitch at 50% pitchcurve? meaning 0 pitch? doesnt seem that way, also a little to little travel
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:58 PM   #3
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I didn't do any setup to this heli - it's a stock configuration. Looks like I have some work to do...

Does anybody have some ball-park numbers on the lengths of these ball links and the general height of the swash? The manual doesn't give any numbers!
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Last edited by CaptHal8HS; 06-29-2012 at 05:41 PM.. Reason: Asked question.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:24 PM   #4
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Your in idle up mode with the pitch curve set at 0,25,50,75,100 right, if not then you should disconnect two motor wires an do so.

Also check that at mid stick the swash height is at 15mm to the bottom of the swash, if set at 15mm then adjust each blade until it is at 0 pitch at mid stick, then make sure the pitch setting in your swashmix is set to your maximum setting to give full range.

This may help some one posted this a while back..

How to get even and full pitch range -10 & +10
check the swash is at the right height at midstick zero pitch :
1. Washout arms level
2. About 15 mm from top of frame to base of swash.
3. Swash is level at top range and bottom
4. Your servos have been 90'ed at midstick zero with as little subtrim as possible.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptHal8HS View Post
Does anybody have some ball-park numbers on the lengths of these ball links and the general height of the swash? The manual doesn't give any numbers!
The link lengths of some users have been reported in the B450 3D Bible by Thalios. Here is the link:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=372444

I have also been looking for a height of the swash (say from top of frame to bottom of swash). Also, we can always use a few more link length reports from people in that thread.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #6
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In my video, I am in Throttle Hold at 0%, with a linear pitch curve.

At mid-stick, my swash distance is at 13mm from the base of the swash to the top of the frame.

Looks like I'm going to have to go over the whole head in order to sort this out. As a relative noob, I could just create a pitch curve to give myself enough of range to practice hovering and to move around a bit. So I could create two pitch curves; one from +3 to +7 to practice hovering and then do a curve like -3 to +7 to do some basic forward flight. Then sort out the head later.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:59 AM   #7
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Well, I went back to check and at 50% on the linear pitch curve, mid-stick, my pitch gauge is reading 2.8 degrees. So something is off.
I also took a look at my servos and they appear to be at 90 degrees - one looks ever so slightly off but I don't think it's an issue.
So I don't know what to do. Should I lower the swash plate using the Swash mix menu in order to get more negative pitch out of the head? And then adjust for the mid-stick position?
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #8
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Try checking it with the motor unplugged and not in throtle hold and a linear curve. I think sometimes throtle hold can mess with the pitch. you should have the motor unplugged when doing something like that anyway. Bump a switch on the work bench and it could be bad, real bad.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:00 PM   #9
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The motor was unplugged. I checked all my ranges for each flight mode along with a linear pitch curve for throttle hold.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptHal8HS View Post
Well, I went back to check and at 50% on the linear pitch curve, mid-stick, my pitch gauge is reading 2.8 degrees. So something is off.
I also took a look at my servos and they appear to be at 90 degrees - one looks ever so slightly off but I don't think it's an issue.
So I don't know what to do. Should I lower the swash plate using the Swash mix menu in order to get more negative pitch out of the head? And then adjust for the mid-stick position?

You should set it at zero pitch at mid stick with the servo's at 90 degrees in idle up with a linear pitch curve, you should not have the throttle hold on if you disconnected the wires. all you need to do is lengthen or shorten the long control arms that connect to the blade grips to get zero pitch at mid stick.

Throttle hold allows you to set a pitch curve, so if you set it non linear meaning it is not 0.25,50,75,100 that could be throwing you off.

Sorry all the above is predicated on the fact the swash is around 15mm from the base, and the servo arms are at 90 degress at mid stick. Since blade provides a swash leveling tool to set the height of the swash correctly and level it, if you do not have one you have to experiment to get full pitch or read the board to find a approximate height and control arm lengths.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #11
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I have my throttle hold toggle set to 0% throttle and a linear pitch curve - 0-25-50-75-100. I had the motor unplugged so I could also check my other two f.mode pitch curves.
I understand about adjusting the links to the blade grips in order to get zero pitch at mid stick, 50%. What if after adjusting for 0 degrees mid-stick-50%, I'm not getting the desired pitch, lets say, at full bottom stick - which is the case right now. Would I adjust my swash mix for pitch to get the desired amount of pitch in the negative direction?
Additionally, do I want to get +13/-13 total range for the 450?
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:01 PM   #12
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if you are still having problems you should check the travel adj menu in the dx6I and make sure everything is at 100 percent, also move the sticks while in this menu and you should see little arrows change direction both directions should say 100 percent. Also go to swash mix and change the pitch setting to what every is 100 percent for you, if it is set to 1/2 range or 50 percent then you will get less pitch in both directions assuming you have 0 pitch at mid stick.

Your pitch range should be even both ways but if it is a little off, I don't think you will notice...
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:42 PM   #13
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Cool. Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:21 PM   #14
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Well, I held my nose and dove on in to try and straighten out the head of my 450.

First, I pulled off the head and broke out m Trueblood swash leveler and sure enough, the swash was out. I leveled mechanically at the mid-stick, then used my travel adjust menus for the high and low positions. Swash is now level at the low-mid-high stick positions.

Next, I checked my total pitch range. I had my throttle hold toggle set to 10% throttle and a linear pitch curve - 0-25-50-75-100. I had the motor unplugged so I could also check my other two f.mode pitch curves. After adjusting the two linkages from the top of the swash up to the blade holders; setting my swash mix pitch to 93% (from the factory setting of 85%) I now have the following pitch range for each blade as follows:

Right blade: L:-10.4 M: -00.1 H: +9.1
Left blade: L:-10.1 M: -00.1 H: +8.9


I then went on to check my cyclic range. With D/R set to 100% and no EXPO, I measured the following cyclic range accordingly:

ELEV: +/- 5.6
AIL: L:5.4/R:6.4


Can anyone comment on my procedure and results to let me know how I did? Also, I'm curious how to come up with a proper throttle curve. I don't have an optical tach. Is there a formula I can use?
And finally, if my blade tracking is out, won't a turn or two on a blade mess up my pitch settings?
Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:48 PM   #15
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Check if both blades are doing the same thing.
Check the 2 little see-saw arms on the grips. they are not symmetrical, there is a short side and a long side.
on edit: part 12, bell mixer arm, is the technical term for the part I'm talking about.

Use the 'monitor' function the the TX to ensure that the TX is sending the same value for positive pitch and negative pitch, (looking at the little sliding arrows).

Finally, you can probably just do a total head setup from scratch as shown in the B450 3d mechanical setup video that is on the DVD that came with the heli.
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:34 AM   #16
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Is the bell mixer arm (part 12) something that I can adjust?
I've been following John Salt's Swash Setup ebook which is very good - I think.
I'll check out the monitor display in my Dx6i. I guess if it's not putting out the same value I adjust my swash mix percentage so it does?
Thanks.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:17 AM   #17
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Not adjustable per say, but I think the short side goes to the link to the grip, and the long side goes to the link to the swash. Be sure that both of them are oriented the same way.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:40 AM   #18
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Interesting. I'm going to check it.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:21 AM   #19
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The two bell mixer arms are correctly oriented.

Looks like monitor is showing pitch on the AUX channel. At full low stick the arrow is all the way over to the right of the screen about 1.35 units away from the right edge of the scale. At full high stick, the arrow is all the way over to the left about 1.75 units from the left edge of the scale. doesn't look equal to me.
Suggestions?

Update:
My swash is hitting the guide pins at low stick. Back to square one!
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Last edited by CaptHal8HS; 07-14-2012 at 09:28 AM.. Reason: New observation.
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:25 PM   #20
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Aux on the display is either your throttle or pitch, can't remember and don't have it with me to check. Just look at the monitor and move the sticks one at a time to figure it out. Either the pitch or throttle is rev so it moves opposite the other, the curves are different so the travel is different.

Edit, just re-read your posts. Have you changed the travel end points? Also, since you are getting more negative pitch (swash goes up) than positive, I would guess that your swash it leveled with zero pitch at the wrong height. I would start the mech setup over and get the swash level at the right height first, then check swash level at full positive / negative pitch ( adjust servo travel end points to get swash level if not). Then center the stick, then zero the blades, then check pitch at full +/- stick. Should be 10/-10.

If your radio seems weird, make sure all the oem settings are in place, turn off / on radio to save the settings, the just load a different model like 5, move the sticks in the monitor to make sure all is normal (note this may be a blank model - not a heli so you are just looking for irregular stick movements), then load model 1 or whatever model is bound to the 450. And check the monitor for normal movements. Kind of like a computer reboot that cleared a glitch I had last month.
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