Question regarding head speed and tail authority

[ICNU]

Originally Posted by barefootlifter

The software just sites the "translating" so the controller just knows what rpm to shoot for for that throttle curve.

I highly recommend trying the governor high mode. Makes the rpm completely customisable at will in the transmitter by changing the flat curve. You can also simulate flat 100% by just setting a high curve such as 100% that just translates into an unobtainable rpm so you end up with 100% throttle. I have one fm1 set for 0, fm2 set to govern 2800, and fm3 set to be wide open throttle.

Thanks and that sounds more like how my other ESCs governors are set up. Whatever curve you set determines the final RPM and nothing else.

I have a Skookum 720 in this build and will the the much superior governor in it, but wanted to test out the CC governor first to see what limitations and/or settings it would allow since I retrofit a standard gear on my heli. The factory EFL Pro setup won't allow governor use at all and still achieve the required HS to hold the tail. My test with the CC is nothing more than than an FYI for anyone else that may consider changing their gear ratios.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

I understand that what it says to do. It's just that doesn't make sense to me. This is my first time with a CC ESC and on my other ESCs, a simple flat curve was set and you would adjust this value to get whatever RPM you were after.

I guess I just don't get why 30% flat curve can produce the same RPM as 70% or 100%
In my mind doing this would mean the RPM would be change as I switched between modes and vurve settings, so my question was why wouldn't I use the same flat throttle curve setting for all modes if the RPM I set in all three boxes is the same?

As you know, Set RPM mode lets you specify the headspeed in the three boxes. The controller just uses the signal from the tx to determine which of the 3 RPM settings to use. The ESC isn't putting out 30% power, it's just that when the ESC is getting the 30% signal from the tx, it knows to use the value in box 1.

Gov high mode is what you're describing with the other ESC's you use. The throttle curve in your tx determines what the RPM is. In this case a 30% curve would result in the ESC trying to put out 30% power or thereabouts. The advantage to this mode is that you can adjust headspeeds via your tx.

In both cases the governing logic is the same, you can't get a higher governed headspeed with one mode vs the other. If you try to go beyond what the ESC needs for headroom, you're essentially running ungoverned.

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[ICNU]

Originally Posted by GT86

As you know, Set RPM mode lets you specify the headspeed in the three boxes. The controller just uses the signal from the tx to determine which of the 3 RPM settings to use. The ESC isn't putting out 30% power, it's just that when the ESC is getting the 30% signal from the tx, it knows to use the value in box 1.

Gov high mode is what you're describing with the other ESC's you use. The throttle curve in your tx determines what the RPM is. In this case a 30% curve would result in the ESC trying to put out 30% power or thereabouts. The advantage to this mode is that you can adjust headspeeds via your tx.

In both cases the governing logic is the same, you can't get a higher governed headspeed with one mode vs the other. If you try to go beyond what the ESC needs for headroom, you're essentially running ungoverned.

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Thanks for the explanation, that helps a lot.
I was ale to test the CC set RPM governor mode today with the retrofit 162T gear and 17T pinion. I set all three boxes to 3000 RPM and it tached at exactly 3000 with my optical tach.

The software would allow up to a 3200 RPM governed head speed using the gear setup I have. I got about a 3 minute hover in and the heli was operating fantastic until a SK720 issue cased a crash I can still get the CC logs to at least show what sort of power I was using with this setup and if everything was happy.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

Thanks for the explanation, that helps a lot.
I was ale to test the CC set RPM governor mode today with the retrofit 162T gear and 17T pinion. I set all three boxes to 3000 RPM and it tached at exactly 3000 with my optical tach.

The software would allow up to a 3200 RPM governed head speed using the gear setup I have. I got about a 3 minute hover in and the heli was operating fantastic until a SK720 issue cased a crash I can still get the CC logs to at least show what sort of power I was using with this setup and if everything was happy.

Sorry about the crash, somehow they're always more frustrating for me when I'm just testing stuff.

Would really like to see what the logs show. Wondering what kind of power the straight gear/17t was using. Been thinking of going this route if it's not going over-stress the controller or batts.

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[ICNU]

Originally Posted by GT86

Sorry about the crash, somehow they're always more frustrating for me when I'm just testing stuff.

Would really like to see what the logs show. Wondering what kind of power the straight gear/17t was using. Been thinking of going this route if it's not going over-stress the controller or batts.

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Here is what I know in this three minute test hover. I wish I had some actual flight data, but this is a start until I rebuild and can get some real FFF values.

My setup is a Castle ICE 75 ESC running an external CC 10A BEC, spinning a Scorpion 1600KV motor. Retro 162 straight gear install with 17T pinion. Maximum set RPM Castle will allow with this setup before using 95% ESC is about 3200. (3200 will turn yellow as it barely crosses the 95% threshold)

I set the governor to 3000 RPM using the set RPM mode, 8Hz setting per the Scorpion website. 3000 RPM puts ESC at 89%

ESC temp leveled off at 150F, ambient was 95F

Amp draw during hover was 16.7 at 386W max with spikes to 32A during hard pitch pumps.
I used medium governor gain and saw no ill effects during my short test. power was instant with no bogging and I saw no kicking of any kind with the heli or tail.

Those hover current values put my 2650Mah pack at 80% in about 7.5 minutes which surprised me. I'm guessing my circuit style, basic flying will average 20-25 max, which still keeps flights in the 5-6 minute range and is typical with what I see everyone else getting with the stock gearing. Actual values put back into my pack after flight came out to 341Mah per minute used, or 6.2 minutes for 80% of my pack.

I think I may also be able to slowly come down a bit on the RPM and see at what point the tail becomes an issue with my style of flying. This should save a bit of juice draw for me if I can. I would be happy if I can get 6 min flights.

[seldredg]

Can I jump in with a few beginner questions. I'm in the middle of building a 500 EFL. What flat throttle curves would work for (1) just basic hover, getting the feel of things. No circuits. (2) Circuits without a lot of drama. Seems the EFL like s a minimum head speed to do anything.

Also, I looked at the blades that came with the kit, the carbon 3G blades. They say 2650 RPM max.

[Lee2782]

For basic hover and getting a feel for this heli anywherw from 80-90% flat curve with the stock 12t pinion will be fine..