Tail bounces on 6100 G/T

[0636]

Well, I've played with my Trex this morning and found that in order to get minimum bounce action I have to use next settings:

Radio: Futaba
Link Ball Distance:13.5mm
Gyro Limit: A: 94 B: 121
Rudder ATV : 90
DR: 100
Rudder Expo: -35
Flight mode : 3D
Performance: Highest
Smooth Control : 2
Gain in Tail Lock: 34.

It's on all stock 600CF.

I've found that if I will use more smoothness and/or gain then I will have more bouncing. With this settings I still have some bouncing now and then but very small (like 1 inch) and very rare.

Does someone managed to get rid of bouncing effect completely?

[DebianDog]

Try an expo of 80% then dial it down till the wag comes back. Then dial it back up a few clicks

Also a smoothness of 8 or 10 help me too.

[0636]

I will try but I'm not sure how expo on rudder stick will help to stop bouncing.
Well, I did not bounce the stick just move it fast.

Interesting, the max tail deflection is happened when stick position, according to gyro, reads around 21. All further stick movements do nothing (tail pitch already at far point).

That means that resolution of tail movements is +/- 21 steps (42 total)
So one can see that tail move is not fluent but kind of step by step.

Does anybody have the same effect?

[DebianDog]

Originally Posted by 0636

I will try but I'm not sure how expo on rudder stick will help to stop bouncing.

Me neither but it worked

[0636]

I used DR switch and fliped between different expos. Expo does not help in this matters.
Tail got lot slower but bouncing stayed.

Logicaly speaking...

Oh well, nobody reading this post anyway.... to whom I'm writing?

[DebianDog]

Do not use DR just expo. I am going out now to test out my 600 with the 6100T as I am having the exact same issue. Expo fixed this on my Ion.

You are on the first page of the 600e forum and in this forum. Not sure that "no one" is reading your post.

[DebianDog]

O.k. I just got back and everything I tried was a failure. No matter what I did it had a small wag. Just for fun I unhooked the power to the motor and ran a servo test via the radio and noticed all my servos were moving smoothly except the tail. I am going to go though the tail assembly today looking for any binding.

[0636]

Hey Debian,

Rudder servo, as driven by gyro, does have only around 42 steps of resolution. Check it out.
You can twist tail blades in order to easy observation of step movement. Then go to normal mode and move stick slow (check on gyro if it goes from -21 to +21, mine does).

Well, I have 13.5mm ball mounting position, I think I'm going to try closer one (it's like 11mm) ir order to get more resolution).
What do you think?

[DebianDog]

Well I think you may be right. I sanded down my tail shaft and made sure it was as smooth as I could get it.

I am going to try moving my ball in to. We will get though this

[DebianDog]

Moved to 11mm and 2 packs later and I was still "bouncing". On a whim (and out of options) I changed the plastic tail blades to CF and the problem looks to have gone. in that, I mean at first I thought it was still there but when I dialed down the gain the tail locked in.

What type of tail blades you running?

[0636]

I am running CF tail blades.

[DebianDog]

Ended up with:

Gyro
Highest
3D
Smoothness 3
Gain 25%
Expo 35%
End Points 125% 128%
Center 3

Radio
End Points 100% 100%
AVC 25%
NOR 50%

You should be able to get the helicopter to hover in rate mode without the bouncing and without having to move the rudder. Did you do that first? If not get it dialed in using the rod adjustments combined with the center adjustment on the gyro.

Did you check you movement?

Not sure if this is the "safe" way but I took the tail hub off so I just had the tail shaft to work with. I removed the main blades. Weighed down the skids and spooled her up as slow as she would go then used a block and light grit sandpaper to "smooth" the tail output shaft. Double check to make sure there was no binding anywhere and made sure that I could EASILY more the slider with the rod (end to end) with no issues. Light coat of oil and reattached.

[0636]

yep, I come up almost with same 6100 settings.
"smoothness - 3" - that what I think has big effect on bouncing, If more then it will bounce when hard stop.

I'll try to move ball link to 11mm (now it's 13.5)

And yes, I did normal mode first. It's almost no drift in normal mode. And I use oil too.
Slider is smooth as far as I can check on the bench.

Well, I'll come back when I'll move ball link to 11mm and do test fly.

[0636]

Nop, 11mm makes it worse. I'm back to 14mm. (I thought that it was 13.5mm before)

You know, it's almost perfect when I do hard stop (just sometimes it bounce back). I have experimented a bit more and I can recreate bounce almost every time when I do soft turn. Just slow rudder input and then let go.
Tail bounce back 1 inch or so with rate it had before when turning.
I checked different gain +32 and +40... no effect.

Well, may be I have to live with that.
Just for the testing, I moved gyro a bit away from mast... tomorrow will check if it will help.

Other then that, tail is pretty strong (pitch pumping, etc.)

[DebianDog]

Are are you talking about a single bounce when you let go of the tail?

Check out these videos on the gyro too

[0636]

yup, it's a single bounce.
And I saw these vids., thanks.

[DebianDog]

Yeah mne still bounces more than I would like. I am going to move back to +13mm

[0636]

Let me know how it goes.
And by the way, would you mind to try last hole in the horn (I believe it's 17mm).

Btw, mine experiment with moving gyro away from bearing (tail drive gear at front) rendered no changes.

PS: I would like to ask a question regarding belt tension. How do you do it? How tight/loose it needs to be and how to measure it. Do you have any tips on this?

[DebianDog]

Originally Posted by 0636

Let me know how it goes.
And by the way, would you mind to try last hole in the horn (I believe it's 17mm).

Btw, mine experiment with moving gyro away from bearing (tail drive gear at front) rendered no changes.

PS: I would like to ask a question regarding belt tension. How do you do it? How tight/loose it needs to be and how to measure it. Do you have any tips on this?

Will do

Yes I have gyros in the front and back of some of my helicopter it just changes the amount of gain... "usually"

I run a torque tube but back when I was running a belt I would make it tight but still have enough play to almost touch the belt together if I squeezed it. That is a 600 question so you may want a new post in that forum for better info