Phoenix Firmware V4.02 released

[msallua]

Originally Posted by Bob O

That was a different motor though right? A 700MX? Not sure if the pole count is different or something. Don't know.

It's the new 750mx, 530kv, 10 pole

[Bob O]

Originally Posted by msallua

It's the new 750mx, 530kv, 10 pole

Yes, I didn't know if the specs for the 700MX in the Castle chart was the same, but it appears it is. That chart is nearly 18 months old.

If you look at the newer chart for the 600, it shows V4 firmware and 12 kHz pwm for the 510Kv motor. Don't know.

[Dr. M]

I read on one of the other threads regarding fw v4.* that 8kHz was a bit iffy in the new programming and they recommend going to 12kHz on all outrunners.

[Brett74]

I am running an Ice 2 120HV with a 4525 520 Ultimate in my Kasama and found the ESC to run much cooler on 8 kHz, power seemed the same...not the same motor but just to show the 8kHz setting worked fine..

[RC Mike]

It’s good to try different PWM settings to see what works best. Just NEVER try to use the outrunner mode with a helicopter.

[xfactor6]

Do you have to re do the end points after upgrading to a newer version of firmware?

[xspare]

Originally Posted by xfactor6

Do you have to re do the end points after upgrading to a newer version of firmware?

It is the recommended practice by the manufacturer.

Originally Posted by RC Mike

It’s good to try different PWM settings to see what works best. Just NEVER try to use the outrunner mode with a helicopter.

Ahem, that is a violation of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" maxim. Remember the result of me increasing from 12 kHz to 16 kHz and tweaking a couple of settings?

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by xspare

It is the recommended practice by the manufacturer.



Ahem, that is a violation of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" maxim. Remember the result of me increasing from 12 kHz to 16 kHz and tweaking a couple of settings?

That type of failure had nothing to do with the ESC settings. Some of the motor internal insulation probably got worn off (probably do to vibration) and caused the motor to short out.
　
Actually higher PWM puts more stress on the ESC. A small change like going from 12 to 16 will definitely not harm the motor.
　
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[xspare]

Originally Posted by RC Mike

That type of failure had nothing to do with the ESC settings. Some of the motor internal insulation probably got worn off (probably do to vibration) and caused the motor to short out...

That sounds like opinionated speculation. It was all working very well on the night before I changed things and roasted the motor. Coincidences happen but it's less often than not.

[msallua]

Originally Posted by msallua

Yes, but the CC website confuse me...the recomendation is 8Khz in the pdf file, I send an email to CC but not answer.

I have an email and answer from Clint Akins:

8 or 12 will be fine... I prefer 8 and normal timing...

Clint Akins
Outside Sales and Support

CASTLE CREATIONS, INC.
540 North Rogers RD, Olathe, KS 66062
Office phone: (913) 948-7581
Cell phone: (912) 481-3690
E-mail: clint@castlecreations.com


Hi,

I have a new Align 700 DFC HV with CC 120A HV (all stock , no mods )…the motor is 750mx – 530kv – 10 poles


I’m ready for the maiden flight

Can you help with the PWM? 8Khz or 12Khz?


Thanks in advance

[RedOctobyr]

Originally Posted by RC Mike

It’s good to try different PWM settings to see what works best. Just NEVER try to use the outrunner mode with a helicopter.

I recently got an Ice Lite 50, still running 3.27. It's a 450 with a Turnigy 2218 outrunner motor. I've been using Outrunner PWM timing, though I just set it to 12kHz for my next flights, to try that out. I think I have timing at Medium.

I haven't noticed any problems with Outrunner. What does it do worse than 8 or 12kHz?

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

I recently got an Ice Lite 50, still running 3.27. It's a 450 with a Turnigy 2218 outrunner motor. I've been using Outrunner PWM timing, though I just set it to 12kHz for my next flights, to try that out. I think I have timing at Medium.

I haven't noticed any problems with Outrunner. What does it do worse than 8 or 12kHz?

It sometimes makes the motor and ESC run hotter That’s because it runs a high PWM most of the time when it’s not really needed. In come cases it also makes for unsteady governor operation. If the motor manufacture recommends 8 then the outrunner mode will be the furthest off from the optimal setting resulting in slightly lower motor efficiency. The lowest PWM that gives satisfactory results is probably the most efficient, however if the motor manufacture recommends something else use that setting.




If you are not aware the outrunner mode is a variable PWM frequency mode that’s needed for high pole count motors that run at a very wide range of speeds, typical airplane operation. Helicopters run at a constant RPM in a fairly narrow speed range and we use relative low pole count motors so that’s not really needed.



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[RedOctobyr]

Thanks, I understand it a bit better now I was just going by the fact that mine is an outrunner Interestingly, my motor & ESC have stayed quite cool (motor barely above ambient, and I think ESC has peaked around 130F or so (maybe a bit higher) in maybe 70-80F weather.

I don't think my $20 HobbyKing motor had any sort of documentation/suggestion for settings

I tried the PWM formula on my motor, and got about 12KHz, so that is at least a nudge in the right direction. I can try 8KHz as well and see if it does anything weird.

[npomeroy]

I'm a new CC-ICE user and when I downloaded the castle link software there was a warning that the new software would make motors run hotter/faster than previous. I can't find this when I look back at the website again though. I understand new firmware requires re-calibration of throttle, so for a first time use (i.e. brand new set-up) this warning is no problem?
I'm a long-standing SK270 user and haven't figured out yet what I'll do about governing (I seldom used it on my scale helis).

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by npomeroy

I'm a new CC-ICE user and when I downloaded the castle link software there was a warning that the new software would make motors run hotter/faster than previous. I can't find this when I look back at the website again though. I understand new firmware requires re-calibration of throttle, so for a first time use (i.e. brand new set-up) this warning is no problem?
I'm a long-standing SK270 user and haven't figured out yet what I'll do about governing (I seldom used it on my scale helis).

The Castle download page has all the documentation and latest firmware.
http://www.castlecreations.com/downloads.html
　
　
Also the FAQ page has lots of useful information.
http://www.castlecreations.com/tech-support.html
　
　
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[scoti333]

Does the Hyperion sensor still work with vBar gov and Ice HV?

[RC Mike]

Originally Posted by scoti333

Does the Hyperion sensor still work with vBar gov and Ice HV?

No if you use V4.02 External Governor mode you need a digital RPM sensor. Hobby Wing has one and CC will have one shortly. Analog sensors like Hyperion and EagleTree are now obsolete.


.

[scoti333]

Originally Posted by RC Mike

No if you use V4.02 External Governor mode you need a digital RPM sensor. Hobby Wing has one and CC will have one shortly. Analog sensors like Hyperion and EagleTree are now obsolete.


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Thank you :-)

[Kalpazan]

A suggestion for Mr.Mel.... It is probably good to update the info on the VBar&Escs page (http://heli.dacsa.net/MrMelSite/VBarESC.html). The part for the CC is outdated.