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450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 08-08-2013, 10:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ColinSouthern View Post
In my case I've love to get one, but it would mean acquiring an entirely new battery cache which, for me, just isn't going to be worth it (I'll probably log a few more hundred hours on the 450 class and then go straight to an 800E class).
Man, I can't beleive you just want one or the other! I want them both (450L and 800DFC)!!!
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #62
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Default New Trex 450 L Dominator!

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Originally Posted by jetblue2135 View Post
It is my personal opinion obviously but for me there is no reason NOT to go 6S as stated above. The lipos are cheap, $33 for a gens ace 6S 40C pack is pretty sweet. The motor, esc and lipos stay cool even when I am beating the heli is impressive to me. I have run my 6S DFC pro with 350 and 360mm blades and to me its just plain awesome. The reason I went back to the stock 325's I have on there now is they are alot cheaper to replace after a crash compared to a set of Radix 350's or whatever else. With align coming out with their own 360mm blades it will be a no brainer for me to go back to the longer blades and better performance. I think the 6S will become the standard for 450 sized helis for numerous reasons. There are plenty of threads on 6S vs. 3S so I won't ramble on about it here.

I will most likely be adding one of these 450L's to my fleet, looks like it will be a real nice heli.
Yeah, i think i might go that way upgrading my pro with 360 blades, boom, TT, dominator motor and new ESC if the blades are in the same price range as the 325's when I crash it next time.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #63
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DW, I have to side with Colin that you can have a pretty powerful 3S setup that is far from being a dog. I've seen videos of the Warp 360 running both power systems and laying it down with the best of them. Videos of the X3 have shown the same with team pilots cranking it up to 4,000 RPM.

Some caveats with that though. On 3S you will be drawing higher current to accomplish the same thing. Here is where a quality battery can make all the difference.

From a marketing standpoint, a 3S combo would appeal to a lot of existing 450 Pro owners that may already have a fair investment in batteries. That adds a lot of value. However, Align does not have much of a history in offering multiple combos aside from the 700 with the HV servo option.

From a consumer stand point, more options is better. I would live to see it offered in 6S, 3S, and barebone as well. That last one could really convert the guys unhappy with the Warp or disappointed in the X3. Depending on price point of course.

Personally, it makes very little difference to me. The 450MX is $50. No matter which power system I want, the conversion is pretty cheap if it isn't the flavor I want. My vendor is good to me so I could probably even talk them into swapping out the motor for a small fee and they would just sell it as an open box item.

At this point, I doubt there is much we can do to change how they have bundled it. It is expected to be out in a couple weeks and we will know the full details then. I'm not much of a gambler, but if I was putting money down I would be pretty confident in it being 6S since the videos they have posted have been running the 460MX 1800KV motor.

Well said!

There is no one perfect option to propitiate all... having options is important. The videos of the KDE 450s demonstrate some of the most powerful setups available, in both 3S and 6S. I don't think that the performance increase of the 6S laps the 3S, I think it shows that both setup provide all the performance that the very talented pilot needed. The benefit of the 6S seemed to be a slightly longer FT, and reduction of the decrease in HS at the end of the flight.

I think it is easier to put a powerful 6S setup together today, and I think it might cost more for a 3S setup to be able to be competitive. There is no doubt in my mind that a quality 3S setup can perform well past 92.6% of us "regular guys" abilities!
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #64
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I've already acknowledged a 3s can perform- and it sounds like everyone here can agree to do so- it will need a more expensive motor, more expensive battery, and probably more expensive ESC.

Explain this to me- when you take the 3400kv 450mx motor and run it on 3s and stock electronics.... and then run it on 4s on stock electronics.... even with the gearing adjusted...

Why is the 4s superior in power, torque and response?

All of sudden it never bogs when slamming the collective up and down, it jumps off the ground during take off, and it absolutely hauls the mail with 14 degrees of pitch with no bogging. Where the 3s would grunt and wind down and bog- needing time to recover and operating better at 12 degrees of pitch.

This is a more scientific experiment because only one variable has changed. The KDE videos represent the no limits, take no prisoners approach to modifying a 450 at any expense.

Those high performance motors are twice the cost of the standard Align motor. The TP high discharge batteries can also be about twice that of the lower discharge... and for what?

It boggles my mind to understand why you don't think more voltage equals more power and torque.

I've been building RC cars since I was a kid... and the only thing that can get the car accelerating so fast that it breaks the glue bond between the tire and wheel- is the battery voltage. Even hand wrapping your own motors can't get that kind of performance increase. Just adding one more cell- and you can barely control the car without snapping an A arm off on a stop sign. This is common knowledge... Seriously.

Could a 6cell battery race against 7cell? No... its not fair. If were caught racing in ROAR with a 11.1 volt when the rules are limited to 7.4V.... what do you think would happen? You'd be kicked out.

Under the same conditions.... More voltage=more power and torque

This just in... News flash... Whats the buzz about these HV servos?

You mean to tell me that HV servos have more speed and torque? Whats the difference between an HV servo and an HV motor?

This is painfully obvious here guys.

Update: So I went to the hardware store the other day.. they had a new high powered cordless drill that outperforms all the others... Guess what? They increased the voltage.

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Old 08-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #65
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Guys, it's not hard to understand why 6S is the way to go. Yes, 3S works just fine and can even have comparable performance. However, which makes more sense? What reason is there to choose 3S over 6S?? I'm afraid that 6S wins by a long shot. PERIOD

If the Dominator was released with a 3S power system, it would have been a joke. Align made the right decision.

Colin, since you're unaware, your signature is very offensive... It says a lot about you and your untactful behavior.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:34 PM   #66
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Its getting closer.

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Old 08-08-2013, 12:43 PM   #67
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My main reasoning was existing packs and charging. I have well over a dozen major brand/high C rated 3s 2200 packs, but only a few 4s packs and I got rid of my small 6s packs after trying it for a bit. There are a lot better/more 6s battery options now for the 450 compared to when I tried it so I am sure Ill try it again at some point. My chargers (Hyperion Duo and 720) can charge a lot of multiple 3s packs faster than multiple 6s packs. I also get more errors when charging a lot of 6s packs in a single morning (I also have 7 6s 5000s/5300s I have to charge for my bigger helis). When charging 3s packs, I can crank them out very quickly without anything getting over worked. My power supply is a large 12 volt (80 amp), but the lower voltage makes the charger work harder on the 6s packs. One of these days Ill pick up a big 24v power supply abd charger but I have been running these chargers for years so Ill wait until they break.

This thread is ruined with all of this back and forth about 3s vs 6s. Anyone who has been in this hobby a while knows the advantages of higher cell counts, but sometimes simple is good too. I am sorry I got involved in that part of this thread and hope this can go back to a thread about the new heli.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:46 PM   #68
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Its the best looking helicopter I've ever laid eyes...

I didn't see that they colored the ESC red too.... beauty is in the detail :-)

IMO- this helicopter will have the greatest power to weight ratio of any helicopter ever made.

What a perfect name for this bird.... It will truly Dominate.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:55 PM   #69
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All I can say is wow. Any news on when it will be released. Can`t wait to get my hands on one.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Funky View Post
They are angled a bit. Like they are in the 600 efl

I love how so many people think all 450s should be 6s. I have been in a heli club for more than 7 years, have visited many other clubs and been to countless rc heli events over the years. The majority of heli flyers couldn't out fly a 2s setup, let alone need a 6s 3500 rpm heli.... but thats what they will all be running. Can't wait to see all those 450s screaming while hovering tail in with an occasional flip
LOL! Nice sig too!

Same with cars: The more noob the more powerful setups

Jokes aside: 6S is the way forward
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:34 PM   #71
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Poppycock and bulldust.

Colin- The biggest reason your signature is so offensive (besides the bloody obvious) ...

Is that the longer you are on this site- the more you keep adding to your list of insults.

Like you keep experiencing these people and therefore you must keep calling them out indirectly.

If you are as old and wise as you imply- you would have a better and more mature means of coping.

Its a juvenile signature for a grown man and it reflects your pretentious approach.

I would have discussed this with you in private but you block PMs. Which says more about your behavior on this site.

You think you can go around calling BS, calling people out, quoting them directly, and swearing your knowledge up and down and people should just have to block you?

Troll - One who purposely and deliberately starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers.

You said Poppycock and Bulldust... but yet offered no insight into the explanation.

Trolling
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:58 PM   #72
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Default New Trex 450 L Dominator!

What do you guys think about the wider frames? I'm afraid it will effect durability in a crash with i.e. bending forces on the servos.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #73
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All I can say is wow. Any news on when it will be released. Can`t wait to get my hands on one.
In this thread or one of the other 450L threads an Assurance guy said mid August.

That flight right there is proof that the potential of 6S is amazing, but the cost... >3 minute flight time. Might need to go 8S ( that's a Joke)

There have been 4S 450s for longer than I have been in the hobby, one of my mentors had a beast of a 4S when I first started flying. but they never took off as a mainstream setup? I think the availability of viable packs was the issue?

I think and hope that the Gens Ace 1500 6S will be the battery to beat in this bird. I have 1200s, but I think it would kill them pretty quickly...

I have a couple of the Gens Ace 6S 1200 40C, but I am sure they are mislabeled 14 or 15 hundreds, because they are so much bigger and like 60g heavier...
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:19 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by togy View Post
What do you guys think about the wider frames? I'm afraid it will effect durability in a crash with i.e. bending forces on the servos.
I don't think it'll have much of an affect. It doesn't look that much wider and the main gear even seems to stick out a little more than the servos. Between the landing gear and the rotor I doubt the servos will get beat up more in a crash than with the current frames.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:30 PM   #75
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Hmm with bigger blades comes bigger servo damage in a crash...
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #76
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Hold it HF readers!!!

Did no one notice the DS 430M cyclic servos in the last video???

They are also red in color... could they be HV?

Sounds like Align may have improved the DS415 and its slop.

It also comes with the updated tail blade holders and thrust bearings.


This is epic.

Now I'm seriously wondering how much the kit is going to be... It sounds like it might be a true all in one kit. No upgrades required. Buy this kit and own the baddest helicopter on the planet type of deal.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:46 PM   #77
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And the white bit at the back, looks like a spacer for the tail transmission... might be to fit the old style into the new wider frames?

The servos are different, they have 4 screws holding them together, the 410s just had 2... I have not had the 415s... did they have 2 or 4?
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:48 PM   #78
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Looks like its going to be a great heli, I will still stay clear of the align servos on a 450 just in my own experience. I have 3 of those Turnigy 306G-HV servos on the way from the Hobbyking US warehouse, I couldn't resist at a price of $67 for 3! I am anxious to see how they compare/hold up to my DS 95's in one of my other DFC pro's.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #79
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Any news about the motor 460mx ? Can be used in a 450pro DFC ?

Thanks in advance
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #80
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Also to note... for those observing the short flight time... that he has an 1100Mah battery in.

I'm sure he wants the helicopter as light as possible to fly like that.

With the wider frames and new battery location- Im sure you can put a much bigger battery in and still fly quite happily.

Especially being able to adjust the COG by simply relocating the battery velcroed to the tray. This is genius.

I'm 99% sure the new motor can be used in a Pro. Its just a 6s motor. The can doesn't look any wider... even if its longer- the Pro has that opening in the bottom plate to accommodate it.

I'm also hoping the DS 430 servos will work on the Pro. Those would be awesome upgrades.

Take a close look at what Align has been releasing- The 800 Pro DFC, 700 Pro DFC, 450L, the fairly priced BTFs and RTFs.....Align is back on top and making some leaps and bounds. 3.1 Firmware is awesome.... Sign me up.
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