I need help tunin a Rossi 65 eng in my Skyfox evo!

Garland · 06-15-2005, 02:50 AM

I have been sittin on this heli for almost a year and figure I better finish her up as she is pretty darn sweet!

Anyway I suck at eng tunin but I did help a bud trash a webra 36 eng once! Rappy bit it also cause no matter what we did on those eng needles, the lil webra didnt like it...
I dont wanna experince another head/butt scratchin tune in session. So any tips from the vario guys would be great! I appreciate ya'll!

Garland.

Heli_jack · 06-17-2005, 06:04 AM

Tuned pipe to header gap 1/2 - 3/4 inch.
Idle needle screw out 2 turns, main needle 2.5.
Put in the head shim regardless of the fuel
For consistency of run use a Uniflow fuel system - it makes a huge difference.

My fuel I blend methanol, 12% Klotz and 1% castor oil. NO nitro.
YOu can use up to 10% but these run better on 0% nitro. The higher the nitro the more oil, so my low oil is fine if no nitro.

Get it to idle consistently, then use the high needle to get it tuned for on the pipe. Fine line between lean and rich.

Garland · 06-17-2005, 11:38 PM

Thanks Heli Jack!

Its not uniflowed right now and Im not sure about the shim I am sure Joe could set me striaght on shims I'll order some from him....

I have a jug of 10% I'll get the header gap right tonite I plan on installin headloaders and gettin her clsoe to the right settings this weekend.

I guess Uniflow will be my mid name cause I have a webra 52aar in my Intrepid 50, will have a webra 91 in my Notar, and this Rossi 65.

Damn I sure hope I can get these European engines to like me!!!

Garland · 06-21-2005, 01:27 AM

well I ran her up on headloaders and I did the pinch test to get the low end correct so she would at least stay runnin till top stick throttle. its weird ya can keep ur finger on her backplate a good while till its painful. I tuned in the hi needle to get on the pipe.

she does put good power out on 10%. the transition from full hi stick to idle is a smooth purrr sound, no hangups.

One prb is the plastic header coupler is really stiff and warped so adjustin the pipe gap was impossible. in fact it vibed loose and fell off the manifold.
Arotrend blue silicone coupler is on there now.

I am itchin to see what she will do once the blades are on, but I am happy so far!

Thanks Jack and Chris for the help! I'll holla back on how it goes.

Christopher J · 06-21-2005, 09:38 PM

On your header/pipe coupler you need clamps. This way when the temp rises it won't vibrate off, also the clamps will help mold the material to the knurled ends of the header and pipe. While true the couple is stiff the way to adjust the angle on it is to heat up with a heat gun. That is how I adjusted the needed angle for my mine to fit in the pipe clamp on my Kobold and for my Airwolf.

The blue silicone will probably not last long on the Rossi. On mine I run 5% at most. I've ran higher nitro on high compression motors and didn't care for the results. Try the 10% but like Heli-jack said they run well on lower to 0 nitro.

Garland · 06-22-2005, 04:18 AM

Thanks Chris

my local shop says 10% is the lowest I can get as they are mostly cars. I guess the car guys like hi nitro also.

The new blue coupler has the clamps where a screw/bolt tightens the steel clamp around the pipe. Like in autos on radiator hoses.

Next is to replace fuel line as it doesnt grip nipples as well as I like it to. Then I'll fly a gal thru it so i can compare to when I Uniflow it.

Wish me luck as this'll be my very 1st 60 heli! 50's and 30's so far.

Christopher J · 06-22-2005, 07:16 AM

Give it shot and go get it!!

gstjohn · 08-16-2005, 02:39 AM

Cool power makes a FAI fuel that is 0 nitro. I am running this in my rossi 65 in my Vario kobold. the engine runs great on it, but it does sound different, no crackle from the nitro.

Christopher J · 08-16-2005, 06:47 PM

After just having got just got back from IRCHA I too have switched to 0 nitro. I chucked a rear bearing two days before competion. Joe had a motor there for me and I switched them out. I'm currently running one thick and one thin shim. He had me switch to 0 nitro and so far so good. He said after the fourth gallon to pull the shims from the head and it should be smooth sailing from there.

I like the motor better on the 0 nitro, it's easier to tune.

Garland · 08-17-2005, 06:03 AM

Thanks fellas I have been moving so all my helis are packed up. Lookin like I'll move again in Oct to ABQ, NM.

Thanks for the FAI fuel tip! I am pretty sure I will uniflow the tank and use that FAI 0% fuel once I am settled.

Christopher J · 08-17-2005, 06:30 AM

Try the Coolpower or Wildcat, they have 18% oil content, the Morgan is 22%, a bit much.

Heli_jack · 08-17-2005, 07:28 AM

Easy on the oil content in a mix with low or no nitro, you don't need as much without the nitro. Temperature wise, mine likes 12% synthetic and 1% castor. The motor runs 40 degrees cooler on that setup.
Jack

Garland · 08-23-2005, 08:33 PM

does some of this info run true for the Webras also?

I am fiddlin with a webra 52aar in a bergen 50, and down the road I have a webra 90 for when I get my notar 520N up and goin. I am bettin that for my 50 it could use a uniflowed tank also.

Christopher J · 08-24-2005, 12:45 AM

Webra engines, like Rossi engines are high compression engines so they don't need very much nitro to run well. I'm finding that my Rossi is running better with a thick and thin shim on 0 then it did on 5%.

WillJames · 08-24-2005, 05:19 AM

WOW ZERO percent Nitro!

Heli_jack · 08-24-2005, 07:14 AM

OH ya will, they just scream on no nitro. Awesome motors they are. One just has to make the learning curve.
Jack

wolfdad · 08-30-2005, 05:53 AM

Garland,
Also, Tower Hobbies sells a 0% nitro or, in this case, nitroless fuel. They tag it as FAI fuel. And, Heli-Jack has you going the right direction on tuning and, although it was against my "high-nitro" nature, I listened to Jack and kept going a bit richer. Dang Rossi will not run on much of anything with nitro in it and richer is better.

Chris mentioned the muffler clamps on the teflon coupler. I found the Vario clamps to be a bit of a pain and went to water heater clamps over the knurled sections. Be sure to check tightness on a regular basis and I would recommend using stainless.

The Rossi is a strong-running motor, however you have to remember that it was designed to be sold in the Euro countries and nitro costs the proverbial arm and leg there. I haven't gotten down to making my own yet (time problem...just like no time to make moonshine anymore..LOL), however Jack is the "expert" there as well.
Doc

Heli_jack · 08-30-2005, 07:09 AM

Expert ???? NOT

Say I am about to try some FAI fuel instead of mixing my own. Curious if the higher oil content will make a difference on a well broken in Rossi. (about 20 gallons now). Will pass on the findingds if I remember .... Oldzeimers disease you know.
Jack

wolfdad · 08-30-2005, 07:17 AM

Jack,
Long time, no communicate. Hope all is well with you and your's. Let me know how you make out on the "witches brew."

My wife just says CRS, CSS, CHS (can't remember stuff, can't see stuff and can't hear stuff...Sherry says that is selective.
Doc

Christopher J · 08-31-2005, 01:28 AM

I'd run Cool Power or Wild Cat. Their oil content is 18% instead of 22%. This advice came to me from Joe at East Coast.

06-15-2005, 02:50 AM	#1
Garland Registered Users Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	I need help tunin a Rossi 65 eng in my Skyfox evo! I have been sittin on this heli for almost a year and figure I better finish her up as she is pretty darn sweet! Anyway I suck at eng tunin but I did help a bud trash a webra 36 eng once! Rappy bit it also cause no matter what we did on those eng needles, the lil webra didnt like it... I dont wanna experince another head/butt scratchin tune in session. So any tips from the vario guys would be great! I appreciate ya'll! Garland.

06-17-2005, 11:38 PM	#3
Garland Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	Thanks Heli Jack! Its not uniflowed right now and Im not sure about the shim I am sure Joe could set me striaght on shims I'll order some from him.... I have a jug of 10% I'll get the header gap right tonite I plan on installin headloaders and gettin her clsoe to the right settings this weekend. I guess Uniflow will be my mid name cause I have a webra 52aar in my Intrepid 50, will have a webra 91 in my Notar, and this Rossi 65. Damn I sure hope I can get these European engines to like me!!! __________________ My helis: Audacity Pantera 50, MA Xcell 30 and 60, Vario Viper, Vario Silence, Vario Skyfox Evo 65, Vario NOTAR 520N, Vario Foxy 50, Mikado Logo 10, 20, 24 Bionic, LMH Corona, Century Raven, Bergen Intrepid 50 and 60.

06-21-2005, 09:38 PM	#5
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	On your header/pipe coupler you need clamps. This way when the temp rises it won't vibrate off, also the clamps will help mold the material to the knurled ends of the header and pipe. While true the couple is stiff the way to adjust the angle on it is to heat up with a heat gun. That is how I adjusted the needed angle for my mine to fit in the pipe clamp on my Kobold and for my Airwolf. The blue silicone will probably not last long on the Rossi. On mine I run 5% at most. I've ran higher nitro on high compression motors and didn't care for the results. Try the 10% but like Heli-jack said they run well on lower to 0 nitro. __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

06-22-2005, 04:18 AM	#6
Garland Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	Thanks Chris my local shop says 10% is the lowest I can get as they are mostly cars. I guess the car guys like hi nitro also. The new blue coupler has the clamps where a screw/bolt tightens the steel clamp around the pipe. Like in autos on radiator hoses. Next is to replace fuel line as it doesnt grip nipples as well as I like it to. Then I'll fly a gal thru it so i can compare to when I Uniflow it. Wish me luck as this'll be my very 1st 60 heli! 50's and 30's so far. __________________ My helis: Audacity Pantera 50, MA Xcell 30 and 60, Vario Viper, Vario Silence, Vario Skyfox Evo 65, Vario NOTAR 520N, Vario Foxy 50, Mikado Logo 10, 20, 24 Bionic, LMH Corona, Century Raven, Bergen Intrepid 50 and 60.

06-22-2005, 07:16 AM	#7
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	Give it shot and go get it!! __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

06-17-2005, 06:04 AM	#2
Heli_jack Registered Users Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washougal, WA	Tuned pipe to header gap 1/2 - 3/4 inch. Idle needle screw out 2 turns, main needle 2.5. Put in the head shim regardless of the fuel For consistency of run use a Uniflow fuel system - it makes a huge difference. My fuel I blend methanol, 12% Klotz and 1% castor oil. NO nitro. YOu can use up to 10% but these run better on 0% nitro. The higher the nitro the more oil, so my low oil is fine if no nitro. Get it to idle consistently, then use the high needle to get it tuned for on the pipe. Fine line between lean and rich.

06-21-2005, 01:27 AM	#4
Garland Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	well I ran her up on headloaders and I did the pinch test to get the low end correct so she would at least stay runnin till top stick throttle. its weird ya can keep ur finger on her backplate a good while till its painful. I tuned in the hi needle to get on the pipe. she does put good power out on 10%. the transition from full hi stick to idle is a smooth purrr sound, no hangups. One prb is the plastic header coupler is really stiff and warped so adjustin the pipe gap was impossible. in fact it vibed loose and fell off the manifold. Arotrend blue silicone coupler is on there now. I am itchin to see what she will do once the blades are on, but I am happy so far! Thanks Jack and Chris for the help! I'll holla back on how it goes.

08-16-2005, 02:39 AM	#8
gstjohn Registered Users Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA	Cool power makes a FAI fuel that is 0 nitro. I am running this in my rossi 65 in my Vario kobold. the engine runs great on it, but it does sound different, no crackle from the nitro. __________________ Greg "G-Dog" St. John East Coast Vario Field Rep

08-16-2005, 06:47 PM	#9
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	After just having got just got back from IRCHA I too have switched to 0 nitro. I chucked a rear bearing two days before competion. Joe had a motor there for me and I switched them out. I'm currently running one thick and one thin shim. He had me switch to 0 nitro and so far so good. He said after the fourth gallon to pull the shims from the head and it should be smooth sailing from there. I like the motor better on the 0 nitro, it's easier to tune. __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

08-17-2005, 06:03 AM	#10
Garland Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	Thanks fellas I have been moving so all my helis are packed up. Lookin like I'll move again in Oct to ABQ, NM. Thanks for the FAI fuel tip! I am pretty sure I will uniflow the tank and use that FAI 0% fuel once I am settled. __________________ My helis: Audacity Pantera 50, MA Xcell 30 and 60, Vario Viper, Vario Silence, Vario Skyfox Evo 65, Vario NOTAR 520N, Vario Foxy 50, Mikado Logo 10, 20, 24 Bionic, LMH Corona, Century Raven, Bergen Intrepid 50 and 60.

08-17-2005, 06:30 AM	#11
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	Try the Coolpower or Wildcat, they have 18% oil content, the Morgan is 22%, a bit much. __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

08-17-2005, 07:28 AM	#12
Heli_jack Registered Users Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washougal, WA	Easy on the oil content in a mix with low or no nitro, you don't need as much without the nitro. Temperature wise, mine likes 12% synthetic and 1% castor. The motor runs 40 degrees cooler on that setup. Jack

08-23-2005, 08:33 PM	#13
Garland Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque,NM	does some of this info run true for the Webras also? I am fiddlin with a webra 52aar in a bergen 50, and down the road I have a webra 90 for when I get my notar 520N up and goin. I am bettin that for my 50 it could use a uniflowed tank also. __________________ My helis: Audacity Pantera 50, MA Xcell 30 and 60, Vario Viper, Vario Silence, Vario Skyfox Evo 65, Vario NOTAR 520N, Vario Foxy 50, Mikado Logo 10, 20, 24 Bionic, LMH Corona, Century Raven, Bergen Intrepid 50 and 60.

08-24-2005, 12:45 AM	#14
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	Webra engines, like Rossi engines are high compression engines so they don't need very much nitro to run well. I'm finding that my Rossi is running better with a thick and thin shim on 0 then it did on 5%. __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

08-24-2005, 05:19 AM	#15
WillJames HF Support My HF Map location Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Western, NC	WOW ZERO percent Nitro! __________________ William James To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. If you fly you are going to crash. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-24-2005, 07:14 AM	#16
Heli_jack Registered Users Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washougal, WA	OH ya will, they just scream on no nitro. Awesome motors they are. One just has to make the learning curve. Jack

08-30-2005, 05:53 AM	#17
wolfdad Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern Maryland	Garland, Also, Tower Hobbies sells a 0% nitro or, in this case, nitroless fuel. They tag it as FAI fuel. And, Heli-Jack has you going the right direction on tuning and, although it was against my "high-nitro" nature, I listened to Jack and kept going a bit richer. Dang Rossi will not run on much of anything with nitro in it and richer is better. Chris mentioned the muffler clamps on the teflon coupler. I found the Vario clamps to be a bit of a pain and went to water heater clamps over the knurled sections. Be sure to check tightness on a regular basis and I would recommend using stainless. The Rossi is a strong-running motor, however you have to remember that it was designed to be sold in the Euro countries and nitro costs the proverbial arm and leg there. I haven't gotten down to making my own yet (time problem...just like no time to make moonshine anymore..LOL), however Jack is the "expert" there as well. Doc __________________ "there are those who have...and, those who will" AMA #70068 IRCHA #2117 Rotary Turbine Waiver #105

08-30-2005, 07:09 AM	#18
Heli_jack Registered Users Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washougal, WA	Expert ???? NOT Say I am about to try some FAI fuel instead of mixing my own. Curious if the higher oil content will make a difference on a well broken in Rossi. (about 20 gallons now). Will pass on the findingds if I remember .... Oldzeimers disease you know. Jack

08-30-2005, 07:17 AM	#19
wolfdad Registered Users Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southern Maryland	Jack, Long time, no communicate. Hope all is well with you and your's. Let me know how you make out on the "witches brew." My wife just says CRS, CSS, CHS (can't remember stuff, can't see stuff and can't hear stuff...Sherry says that is selective. Doc __________________ "there are those who have...and, those who will" AMA #70068 IRCHA #2117 Rotary Turbine Waiver #105

08-31-2005, 01:28 AM	#20
Christopher J Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kansas City	I'd run Cool Power or Wild Cat. Their oil content is 18% instead of 22%. This advice came to me from Joe at East Coast. __________________ Christopher J SMI R & D Pilot RCXcel "Size it up, then scale it down"

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