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Old 02-20-2006, 05:07 AM   #1
jbeech
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Default Pantera 50

Audacity Models has been victimized . . . again. A few weeks ago it was by a Thunder Tiger representative who intercepted and made public (i.e. posted on RunRyder) a confidential document.

http://www.runryder.net/helicopter/t232482p1/

Now we are the victims of industrial espionage! The photos, which have been posted on an Australian website . . .

http://www.archeli.com.au/cpg133/thu...s.php?album=38

. . . are of our upcoming Pantera 50. Unbeknownst to us, they were taken at Nuremberg a couple of weeks ago whilst they were unguarded in a conference room (for private viewing). We only left them (door locked) during the lunch break. In the evening they went to the room with us! I am shocked at this outrageous behavior. This is an incredible turn of events. I simply cannot believe how low some people will stoop. Unfortunately, this thread has forced my hand on a product announcement a before I was prepared to make it. I have no choice however but to proceed.

However, as we all know, when life hands you lemons you had better get busy and make some lemonade! Thus, I figure I must take action and though I am very disappointed this has happened, here is the real story!

http://www.audacitymodels.com/ftopicp-676.html#676
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Old 02-21-2006, 05:47 AM   #2
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John ...

How in the world do you do so much in so little time? Do you ever sleep?

I just read the pre-view on the Audacity forums ... this is looking like one sweet machine!
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:25 AM   #3
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Quit with the cheap publicity stunts, you lower your own credibility and any that remains with your products.

Personally, I will never purchase ANY of your products, and that's a direct result of your business antics, and nothing else.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Quit with the cheap publicity stunts, you lower your own credibility and any that remains with your products.

Personally, I will never purchase ANY of your products, and that's a direct result of your business antics, and nothing else.
get a grip janek what manufacturer doens not do what they can to market their wares

if john was not doing good people like you would not always be stirring the pot for him

you know you are helping him market his product right

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Old 02-22-2006, 04:51 PM   #5
Janek
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Most manufacturers don't resort to unfounded accusations against "others".

And I will not turn the other cheek and let him get away with posting terminalogical inexatitudes unchallenged.

I have a history of making life difficult for manufacturers that don't "toe the line", and sometimes I've had a little success :wink: , what have you done to further the cause of the average customer by sitting on the fence ?
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:11 PM   #6
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Most manufacturers don't resort to unfounded accusations against "others".
Could you tell us what these unfounded accusations are? Or you just want to keep everyone guessing.


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Old 02-22-2006, 06:14 PM   #7
Janek
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Read the first post, they are there for everyone to see.

"Victimised" , "industrial espionage", "confidential document."

When was the last time you saw someone from TT, MA, Hirobo, et al posting such utter drivel in an attempt to improve on their sales figures.

However, I'm a "visitor" here, therefore I'll shut up now, as I'll probably upset everyone with my forceful views on this matter.
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:51 PM   #8
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Hey Janek, what did you do take a wrong turn? this isn't the SPOT!
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:21 PM   #9
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Hey Janek, what did you do take a wrong turn? this isn't the SPOT!
Janek should still be welcome to post his thoughts here right?? Just because he disagrees with you and some others does not mean he should leave... at least not in my mind. As long as he doesnt get too out of control anyways!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Old 02-23-2006, 12:57 AM   #10
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umm yehh..... why take a super secret heli design to a trade show where if ya only wanted to show it off to a select few reps, there is email, or look at it in the hotel room or something...
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Old 02-23-2006, 02:57 AM   #11
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I would like one of you RAPTOR LOVER'S to show one thread of proof that John Beech is lying about what took place!

Just one FACT is all I ask.

"When was the last time you saw someone from TT, MA, Hirobo, et al posting such utter drivel in an attempt to improve on their sales figures. "

I believe when Jeff posted something BIG was coming from TT, a month before they signed Markus. An new sponcered pilot, Yeah that's some big manufacturer news. (Markus is a great guy by the way)
And just about every post from Mike Fortin (MHF) has been mindless drivel.
The raptor guy's have road the Alan Szabo horse long enough.


What are you sad people going to do when Min Air releases their 50 class machine?

I just can't believe you raptor guy's.
Now listen close, because this is a question all raptor fans really need to answer:
When was the last time you could speak to the person, that was in charge of changes you want to make on a Raptor?

Tiger owners can call John all week. And he listens.

I hope you raptor fans have the international number, and can speak another language.

Janek you should know as well as any one.....They are just toy helicopters.

Why get your panties in a wad?
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Old 02-23-2006, 03:36 AM   #12
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Janek you are welcome to say what you want, I think what people are trying to say here is that the majority of people are gettign VERY tired of all the raptor guys doing what essentially amounts to whining about John Beech and the Tiger 50. I knew when I saw the photos on ArcHeli that it was Tiger frames, they are easy to identify. You guys constantly whining about the Tiger and John Beech are selling helis for him, is that what you want? If so, it is working.

Persoanlly I think you could use your energy in a lot more positive way.

Quote:
Janek should still be welcome to post his thoughts here right?? Just because he disagrees with you and some others does not mean he should leave... at least not in my mind. As long as he doesnt get too out of control anyways!!!
You good buddy and his many clones and non-stop harassment and negativity and misguided self promotion has been laying the groundwork for "spot" guys here for a long time if you know what I mean. You can rationalize it however you want, and try to spin it to where you think people can't see the real truth if you want, but everybody knows what the real deal is..... It is a little late for spin. What is not going to happen is spotters just coming here to stir up crap, that is not gonna be tolerated.

In this case though, I think you are being sincere, I believe you really hate John and tiger 50's, but unfortunately you are beating a dead horse, this is all yesterdays news and people are just tired of hearing it. All the talk is just making people think John must have something really good for all of the raptor guys to keep up level of rhetoric.

Also, if you can post here, you are a member and not just a visitor.
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Old 02-23-2006, 03:43 AM   #13
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Tom you make a great point. THat is one of the things I really like about Miniature. I have seen time and time again where pilots at the field get Tim on the phone and they have actually changed the cut plan with Bob on teh cutter or different things like that. I saw it on teh Spectra G with John Garst, I have seen pilots like Clint, HC, Eric and Matt all on the phone with Tim and making improvements on the heli right from the field ir at least talking to TIm about things they are trying adn stuff like that and Tim listens! Tim designed the new flybar carrier on a napkin at a Mexican restaurant while eating dinner one night, Clint abd Carey can verify, it was while we were on the way down to the BCHPA event last year and stopped through Sorrento.

Now John Beech comes along and works in a lot the same way, I see Tiger pilots at the field calling him and them making improvements together and discussing how things are going, what the pilots like/dislike, etc. Raptor guys really seem to hate this, but it is true. John obviously pissed off a lot of people who fly raptors with his ads on RR nad stuff, but in the big scheme of things, I think John has a pretty good helicopter. Everywhere I go I see people flying TIgers so I have to think all the raptor guys are helping John sell helis.

Tom is right.
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Old 02-23-2006, 06:36 AM   #14
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The fact that I happen to fly Raptors at the moment matters not one iota, in the past (and in the future) I have critisised both the machine itself and Thunder Tiger. Therefore, while I fly them, I can also see them for what they are, imperfect plastic fantastics. I also happen to be a "Spot" member, we not all perfect , but don't paint everone who frequents that forum with the same brush :wink:

Have I bashed the Tiger 50 ?, no I haven't, nor would I, until I had experianced it for myself. I accept that it is probably a good model, and that like all other has it's plus points and it's negative points.

What I'm "Complaining" about, is the shoddy business practices of the person selling them. If I witnessed Thunder Tiger, Minature Aircraft, Hirobo, or anyone else doing similar stuff, I would have exactly the same reaction.

We are customers (or potential customers), and we have the right (and I believe, duty) to try to keep the manufacturers in line. For a lot of manufacturers, this isn't difficult, as they treat their customer base with the respect they deserve, but there are a select few who don't, and I will give them all a hard time (anyone witness my stances against Irvine UK and Quick Worldwide ?)

Maybe you all see that as negative ?, but I bet there's a good few people out there that smell a rat on the "facts" that are put forward in the original post in this thread.

Earlier I said I would be quiet, this time I promise I'll try harder
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Old 02-23-2006, 07:08 AM   #15
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Earlier I said I would be quiet, this time I promise I'll try harder
There is no need for you to be quiet Janek. Your point is well taken and has been seen by some people, and as with everything that is definitely one way to interpret John and Audacity Models. Do you know any of the history of how John has done everything he has done in business relating to the hobby? He is just like that, it is his style, some people like it, some don't. The fact that so many TT people (and even ones who self admittedly say the Tiger is probably an OK machine) are saying tings against John like this in public makes people think you have alterior motives or something like that behind what you are saying. Nothing personal at all, just that is what I hear in private and also at the field. Ask Mike Fortin if there was any razzing at the field about why raptor is so adamant about defaming John Beech and his heli that seems to work GREAT for a lot of people at the fields. I hate to see it honestly, I flew r90's for 2 seasons, they fly great and are good machines. They sure have evolved a lot since mine to. Marcus Kim is a HUGE asset to TT, and I really LOVE to watch him fly. Szabo, well...he has his own style he developed and WOW, Alan is still dazzling grouds everywhere he goes, get his video, it is HOT and funny.

Janek, you are welcome and encouraged to say whatever you want. When you do it on the Audacity forum, the tiger guys get a little fiesty. People hear you and that is definitely one way of perceiving John. It is hard to please everybody no matter what... and John is just doing things the way he does it and he is doing pretty well for a one guy operation trying to sell good helis at a cut rate. I will take some of Johns marketing with a grain of salt, and enjoy seeing tiger people at the field having fun and enjoying a good flying and all around heli and be glad it is there. I hope John does well and continues to offer a pretty low cost good heli for years to come. I have flown a tiger or two and they fly fine. I had raptor 50's and an E-Raptor and I know they fly great to.

Quote:
shoddy business practices
That is a little to strong. John is selling copters and supplying the parts in stock all the time, and upgrading the copter per the requests from the people who fly them. His marketing is a little over the top, but what is shoddy about how he runs his business?
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Old 02-23-2006, 07:13 AM   #16
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Oh, and by the way Tom

Quote:
What are you sad people going to do when Min Air releases their 50 class machine?
I know what I am gonna do... You can fly it Tom if you let me fly the gasser!!
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Old 02-23-2006, 07:34 AM   #17
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Hey Janek,

Just bustin your stones bro, we've had some very good debates in the past and I look forward to more in the future. :cool:
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:04 AM   #18
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I have been in the hobby since the late 80's. During that time I have seen all kinds of advertising campaigns by different manufactuers. Some of them were identical to the Tiger advertising campaign. It is nothing new in this hobby to compare one brand to another in an ad. It has been happening for years. It happens everyday with commericals here in the USA on television. There will be one manufactuer showing why they think there product is better than the other manufactuers.
That is just way it is going to be and really no reason to get upset about it.

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Old 02-23-2006, 08:16 AM   #19
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I can't believe it took me all I said to say what DH put in a couple of sentences...

Thanks David.
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Old 02-23-2006, 08:27 AM   #20
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But should John Beech, owner of a heli company, come out and openly call another brand heli a pig on a forum. I have never seen that from any other campany. I`m willing to bet if I had one of his heli I could find flaws in it also but I would never call it a pig. I have no doubt it flys nice but so do most helis these days. I can understand his ads toward the raptor. They have probably the biggest newbie base and that is what he is after. His ads don`t bother me, it`s just the words he types in the forums.

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