This thing has a Tip Over problem

[rcuser]

Originally Posted by Brick

I have been flying old 450/500 flybarred Heli's awhile. I have 2 Blade 230's. Got my Fusion setup just today.

Took it out for it's first spool up. Tilted left with a vengeance ! ripped up my Blades and shredded the main gear. I pretty much just brought it back home and put it on the shelf. looks to be quite a show replacing the main gear

EDIT: add 1 stripped servo to the above..

Gosh that’s awful. Sorry to hear. You probably did this right but Im more posting this for others as Ive learned myself.

When plugging the battery in, make sure the heli is on a flat surface and let it fully initialize. Then if the heli is moved somewhere else to take off, also make sure the ground is nice and flat. Ive had a tip over where I took off in grass since the heli was sitting evenly leveled in the grass. Now i always take a heli pad with me and place it over the grass to take off from.

[rcflyair]

I got six flights in (with tail wag and cyclic vibs) before mine tipped over...

I just finished putting in KST215MG on the cyclic, KST213X on tail, and Ikon2 FBL. Only got two flights in today, but the wag is gone, and the cyclic shuddering is gone, and it lifted off and landed smooth and easy, just like it should
Here are some servo shim/spacers I made to get the KST cyclic servos to mount up properly...

The design and mechanics are fantastic, but if I were to do it over again (and I might), I would get the ARF and add better electronics.....

I have a sneaking suspicion that the H3050 servos might be causing all this trouble......

[Brick]

I was actually going to build an OXY 3. but I kept hearing good things about the BNF Fusion. then after buying, I started hearing the bad side.


I like building and tinkering, didn't think I would be "rebuilding" so soon !

[Hexapod32]

I got the Fusion 270 ARF and installed a Brain2 FBL gyro and KST 215 servos and a Spektrum satellite receiver. I have only flown it once...our club field is a swamp right now. But the heli took off straight up, never tipped, and no tail wags. So I think the stock Blade FBL gyro may be causing the tipovers that people have with the Fusion 270. If your Fusion is tipping, try a Brain!

[Psycho_dad]

Back in 2018, september to be exact, I bought my 270 Fusion BNF and as most of these helis...it had an ugly tail wag right out of the box...

It bothered me that much that I eventually lost interest and the heli just gathered dust. Last month I started reading several topics again and my interest came back... I figured out how to get into the advanced settings of the FBL and adjusted the PID gains (cyclic = decreased them all to 90)

With shaking knees I performed my first hover (after changing the PID) and... the tail wag was still there but hardly noticable It went from a shaking wet dog tail to almost no shake.

It really flies and reacts like a regular 230S only this one is on steroids

[02ViperTwin]

After 40+ flights with a small handful of tip-overs or near tip-overs, I’ve found my BNF 270 tends to get squirrely only when I do not have a very smooth spool-up or landing (very stable otherwise). Is it possible that our tip-over tendencies are caused by cyclic gain settings that are set too aggressively at the factory?

I’ve also had to decrease my cyclic gain to eliminate a minor tail-wag that I had out of the box (P/I/D now = 95/95/95), but now I’m beginning to wonder if reducing them some more might help with my occasional tip-over tendencies. If this might help, can anyone suggest how much lower I might be able to go w/o introducing any other adverse side effects?

BTW, I’m just a novice sport-flyer, so I do not need a hyper-sensitive setup.

Thank you in advance,
Don

[TomazB]

My opinion about this tip-over thing: there is nothing wrong with the AR636A FBL.

I own this Fusion 270 just for 3 weeks and am close to 100 flights now. Bought the BNF version (AR636 and spektrum servos).

My first maiden attempt went bad. Hard and fast tip-over to the front-right side. And prior to that i even changed skids to larger ones which didn't help a dime. Lost tail pitch slider and scratched tail blades. Everything else was ok.

So after that i made my homework: tune all the mechanical stuff that should always be checked before trying to fly any heli anyways, and never had to look back again.
Since that, it was only flying and recharging packs for me. I can even "drive" it around on the ground on the skids and it will not show any desire to tip.

So before trying to battle controls rather spend an hour and do these:
- Adjust COG !!! - if you cant get it perfect than rather make it nose heavy! (tail heavy stock with recomended pack size)
- Adjust Servo centering+swash leveling+zero pitch
- Adjust main+tail blades tightness + belt tension (all too tight stock)

And thats it. I mean ok, if you have any wag in the air, you will need to play around a bit with PIDs to make it perfect, but this is not the topic here.

[Arek]

I'm so scare to read that guys. I made 100 flights with mine and never had this issue. I think the tilt forward is not the reason.

Not that I am happy with the heli, I had other issues - shaking problem in IU2, which moved to IU1 later on, which I think is AR636 problem. For me it's the last from Blades.

But no tip overs.. My procedure used to be: keep it freely in your hands, connect the battery, put on the floor of my cars trunk and wait until it initializes. Then put on the ground and fly.

[TomazB]

Well there is nothing scary about it. You just need take a bit of time to adjust everything that needs to be adjusted properly. Those that are not prepared to do that..well they likely chose wrong hobby.
I took time to learn things and make adjustments, and honestly so far my BNF fusion 270 maintanence costs are lower per flying hour than those of my 230s, and even those are very cheap. I know its mainly because 270 is harder to crash since it allways has enaugh power to recover from bad situations, but that still doesnt change the fact.

[Brick]

I am in the process of rebuilding mine for the THIRD time. I have not even got it off the ground to do a trim flight ! putting KST 215 servos in it this time. I have built 3 older 450 Heli's. 1 500 Heli and a 600 . all flybarred. so I am pretty familiar with getting everything square. am flying (2) 230s heli's now. got them flying smooth. But this Fusion.....it's kicking my ass.


yeah TomazB, I even got some of the 300x landing gear to put on it

[xoexoe]

Sounds like my own experience with the Fusion 270. I killed 6 servos before getting it in the air. On the plus side, I learned how helis are put together.

In the end I sold mine and don’t regret it. Hope you get the issue sorted out.

Oh by the way, the servo saver mod works on the Fusion 270. At least it did for me.

[KloppKopp]

I know this thread is old and cold, but I have been trying to solve a Fusion 270 tip over problem in the last couple of days and wanted to share what I found out. Maybe it helps others with the same problem.

A friend of mine has bought a used Fusion 270 and could not get it in the air. It is constantly tipping over to the right when he wants to lift off. After destroying two sets of blades, one servo and a complete tail, he gave up. Since I am super happy with my Blade 150s I cannot believe that this could not be solved.

I checked all the mechanics and the controls moving as expected – no problems.

Just by coincidence I found out the following: On the bench with motor cables disconnected I did a mockup flight. In normal mode with throttle over 50% and tail/ail/roll centered when I press “bail out” the swash tilts to the right!!!

Somehow the AR636A thinks the heli is tilted far to the left and wants to correct that. I guess that’s what happens on lift off when the heli gets light and the AR636A takes over.

So how do I correct that? Calibration sounds great, but I cannot get into calibration mode, tried several times. I guess the AR636A needs the firmware update first, but I don’t want to buy that if it is not certain it solves the problem. I don’t understand the HH price policy on cables anyway.

Second option: Trim flight. Not possible because no way to lift off.
Finally a mockup trim flight solves the problem. The heli is 100% leveled (both axis) on the bench, go into “trim flight mode” with motor cables disconnected. Set throttle at around 75% for 2min, leave all other controls untouched. Then “land”, i.e. throttle to zero and out of trim flight mode.

The Fusion 270 now takes off like it should and is rock solid stable in the air. 10 Flights so far and no problems.

[bellabellaince]

I have noticed that sometimes I cannot reach the site

[2005h4]

I am still raged over this.* My $380 going into the toilet.* HH should have recalled and refund all the money back!!* This was absolute chaos.....