Brushless Lama V4

[tomfn]

I got tired of the stock motors and the tail drift so i ordered the Xtreme 180 motors. The Lama performed a little better with them but after some flights it started to drift again. Adjusted the motor ratio and tried again. It was better but when the motors got hot it started to drift again. Found out that I had to take out the brushes and bend them a little. After this the tail drift was better for about 5 or 6 flights and then it started again. I think when the brushes get hot the pressure on the brushes gets weaker and this causes the two motors to perform different during the flight.

Tired of this I started reading posts in different forums about the brushless Lama upgrade I decided to try this with my Lama V4, 2,4Ghz. At first I ordered the C 10 2100Kv motors, modified them with longer shafts and 8t pinion. Mounted the motors and found out that the 2100Kv motors will not give enough rpm to lift the helicopter. Then I found out that I could by the 2900Kv motors modified from Don at Strong motors. Don sent the motors and they arrived in Norway after only 3 days, excellent service and they bolted right inn :-) (I should have bought everything from Don in the first place, but I did not know about Don`s company when I first ordered the parts).

I made the set up for the esc one at the time without the gyro and then bind the receiver to set the fail safe position. I already had a Spectrum DX6 radio for my Stryker F27C with an extra esc so I used this on the Lama.
I changed the trottle curve to 0-60-100.

At the first start up the Helicopter had very bad tail wagging, so much that it would not lift. Found out that I had to move the gyro gain wire from the gear channel to the Aux channel and set the gyro gain at around 35%. I don’t know why? Might just be some settings in the DX6 menu? Now the Lama lifted and it flies like a dream J. No tail wagging, longer flight times and much more power than stock. The tail is rock steady during the whole flight and the helicopter does not lose altitude when it turns like the stock did. Flight time with 850mAh battery is around 13 to 14 minutes.

Strong RC Motors: http://www.strongrcmotors.com/Motors.htm
Thank you for the motors Don :-)

I used this setup: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=2090630
(Thank you, saved me a lot of time)

Components used.
2 x Turnigy Plush, 6A esc (Weight 2 x 6gr). 23,98 USD
2 x Modified ELE C10, 2900Kv motors from Strong RC motors. 40,- USD
1 x GWS V Tail mixer (Weight 5gr). 9,55 USD
1 x MKS 191 head lock Gyro (Weight 4,8gr), 39,90 USD
1 x Spectrum AR6000 receiver

Total cost 113,43 USD + shipping.

I also have most of the Xtreme upgrades.
Total weight with Xtreme upgrades and 850mAh battery is 213gr (stock 230gr) :-)


I have flied around 12 batteries after the upgrade and it flies great. It is a different Helicopter and it is much more fun to fly J. Hopefully I will spend a lot more time flying and less time fixing after this upgrade.

Although this was an expensive upgrade it was worth every penny :-)

Sorry for my English.

[mnwizard]

Great work Tom! Nice write up too.

Thanks for posting this.

Your English is very good, far better than my Norwegian!

[kodak_jack]

Quite the heli! Looks great. Can this set up be done with the stock radio and receiver? I don't have the mega buck Spektrum and would like to stay away from that expense if possible. On RC Groups, there is talk of a cheap programmable radio that's at least affordable. How much do you figure this thing cost you? Mine has the Extreme Sport package, so, I also have their skids.

[barak1001]

I was curious as to how well the MK 191 held heading. It appears to be almost identical to a Telebee Gr201 as far as the specs go.

Other than the gyro I used the exact same parts and couldn't be happier with it.

[tomfn]

Thank you mnwizard. Looked at your vid playing in the snow, your heli flies great with the Xtreme motors:-)

Kodak_jack, the total cost was 113,43USD.
Hobby Citty has a kit:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=8285 i dont know if it works but reading the reviews i would not recomend it!

Spektrum DX5 costs 99,95USD but it is not programmable:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...RX_only_Mode_2

Barak: the Mks191 works great and it is only 4,8gr :-)

[kodak_jack]

I've heard that kit does NOT come with pinions, which are hard to find, and the shafts are too short. Other than that, I guess it's a good mod.

[barak1001]

The problem with the kit is that people were connected it and NOT using a JST "Y" cable to run power to the brushless converters. That and they were disconnecting power to the 4in1 and connecting power to the ESCs instead.

You have to use a "Y" cable so that 7.4 volts goes to the 4in1 AND the brushless converters.

[DumbDawg]

Wowsers... looks like a great upgrade to be sure but the cost is def prohibitive for me especially... That and for $113 USD I could buy another K2 for $7.00 more dollars..

I personally can't see putting in that much money into a Lama... but each to there own...

Great writeup tho... well done...

happy fly'n and Merry Christmas

[kodak_jack]

Tom, before anybody thinks of doing this, can you comment back about what I've heard on another forum?
Are there pinions with the motors?
Are the motor shafts long enough for a Lama 4's stock frame?
Do you get any kind of instructions with the kit or do they assume you know how to do it?
If this is a COMPLETE kit, why didn't they also include the Y-cables and tell you how to hook it up?
If the kit does not come with pinions, where did you get yours?

[GaryM]

I was informed via the Hobby City comments/discussion tab that the brushless coax kit :
1. Does not come with pinions. Reportedly Horizon Hobby sells 2mm 8t pinions.
2. The shafts of the C10 might not be long enough to reach the lower gear on a CX2/Lama.
3. The motor mount hole pattern should fit a Lama/CX2.

Observation: Most of the feed back on the Hobby CIty coax brushless kit is negative.

I changed my CX2 to brushless using Strongmotors and the rest from Hobby City.
Flight time goes up %30. The only hassle was dialing in the Telebee gyro.

[tomfn]

Kodak Jack.
The Hobby Citty kit does not come with longer shafts or 8t pinions. After reading about the Hobby Citty kit in forums i would not recomend it. I bought my motors From Don at Strong RC Motors, the came with longer shafts and 8t pinions. 2 motors with longer shafts and 8t pinions is 40USD. The rest i bought from Hobby Citty, but Strong RC Motors also have the parts. I bought the Y-cables but i did not use them, i soldered the cables to get them shorter. For the settup i used information from Lee provided in this this tread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5#post10638875
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=2090630

This is al the information you need.

[GaryM]

tomfn:
I may convert my Lama v4 when the brushes are gone. Do you like the MK191 gyro? Does it drift like the Telebee?
Thanks.

[tomfn]

I like the MK191 gyro, no drifting the tail is very steady.
I have a litle vid of the Lama, i will try to uppload it.

[GaryM]

Thank you. BTW, your brushless installation looks clean and professional. I am using the Turnigy 6A ESC and Turnigy V-tail mixer on my CX2. I may try the GWS mixer on the Lama. I am not sure which gyro to use.

Question: Do you know if it is possible to remove the shafts and pinions from the stock brushed Lama motors and use them in the C10? The shaft is 2.0mm and I estimate about 35-40 mm long.

[barak1001]

Yes, you can remove the shafts and pinions, though it's a hassle to do.

As far as v-tail mixers go you can also use the Turnigy v-tail mixer. It's the same resolution as the GWS, and it's quite a few dollars cheaper.

[GaryM]

Would it be easier to find some 2.0mm shaft stock, get some 2.0mm pinions from Horizon Hobby and roll your own C10 shaft? Only one C10 needs a longer shaft, right?
Thanks.

[tomfn]

2x c10 motors = 25,90USD, pinion 8t = 3,90 USD, maybe 3,0 USD for the shafts? Total 32,8USD. You will also need a smal spacer betwen the bearing and the pinion. http://www.strongrcmotors.com/C10%20...20SM%20JPG.jpg

Motors from Strong RC motors costs 40,-USD and they will bolt right in. You could save 7,2USD if you modify them yourself. I would have bought them from Strong RC :-)

[barak1001]

Part of the problem is that the shafts on the C10 motors are pressed in.

They are an EXTREMELY tight fit. So you'll need to use some type of press with pin to remove them, otherwise you'll more than likely damage the motor taking them out.

If you've already bought the kit from HobbyKing, then I'd advise you to be really careful trying to get the old shaft out and the new shaft in. If you haven't bought it, I'd say buy the motors from Strongrcmotors and do all your own electronics.

[tomfn]

A vid of my second flight:

Lama V4 brushless (2 min 36 sec)

[kodak_jack]

Tom, I guess I don't follow why you went to a non-programmable radio. What was that for? Couldn't you use the stock radio and receiver?