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Old 06-16-2006, 10:13 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Hummm. I was thinking on something like this...... but I still feel not very confortable with this solution under the boom.... I don't know it seams to me that have to fall down after some time in flight..... anyway I will try it!

Marco
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Old 06-16-2006, 12:09 PM   #62 (permalink)
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You can add a little safety if your worried about it falling off by putting a strap around it as well.
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Old 06-16-2006, 01:14 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Hi Bob,

Some more beginner questions for the Master.

On the HDE I found that the balls can be mounted to the HM65 servo arms seemingly quite securely by carefully sizing the hole and then screwing into it. In the CCPM videos you use nuts and threadlock to secure the balls to the servo arms.

1) Will threading into the servo arm be safe and reliable ? If not are nuts provided for mounting the balls on the servo arms in the HDE kit (I seem to have four suitable ones as the last items in the HZ0 bag) ?

2) I have used the four-way arms on all three body servos, in all cases on the outer of the two possible holes, which are 10mm from the centre. Is that an OK choice ? I checked in each case that there seemed to be enough travel on the 10mm radius. In fact on the aileron servo I had limit the travel to +/-40% to prevent binding. Does that sound OK or are alarm bells wringing ? Also, do we trim off the three unused arms just to save weight ?

3) I don't have a Dremel so at this stage I have mounted the elevator ball on the outside of the arm. As you know, this results in about a 5-degree angle on the control rod. I guess this reduces precision of elevator control a little, but will that matter for a learner pilot ?

Thanks for your time,
Kenneth
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Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
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Old 06-16-2006, 01:43 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Hi Bob,

The HDE frame doesn't have the raised and slanted platform at the front for mounting the battery so am I right in assuming that the only option is lashing it to the stubby platform ahead of the motor ?

I have not yet begun the tail assembly, but with the motor, ESC, servos plus another 190g of battery all well forward of the main shaft, it's hard to see how the CG can be brought back in line with the shaft. Sure the Rx and gyro are aft, but together they weigh less than 20g so that's not much help.

Is it just the cantilevered leverage of the tail that sorts out the CG or am I missing something ?

Thanks,
Kenneth
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:10 PM   #65 (permalink)
 

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The ESC is normally a little behind the main and you also have a receiver, gyro and another servo back there. It all seems to work out.
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:30 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
Hi Bob,

Some more beginner questions for the Master.

On the HDE I found that the balls can be mounted to the HM65 servo arms seemingly quite securely by carefully sizing the hole and then screwing into it. In the CCPM videos you use nuts and threadlock to secure the balls to the servo arms.

1) Will threading into the servo arm be safe and reliable ? If not are nuts provided for mounting the balls on the servo arms in the HDE kit (I seem to have four suitable ones as the last items in the HZ0 bag) ?

2) I have used the four-way arms on all three body servos, in all cases on the outer of the two possible holes, which are 10mm from the centre. Is that an OK choice ? I checked in each case that there seemed to be enough travel on the 10mm radius. In fact on the aileron servo I had limit the travel to +/-40% to prevent binding. Does that sound OK or are alarm bells wringing ? Also, do we trim off the three unused arms just to save weight ?

3) I don't have a Dremel so at this stage I have mounted the elevator ball on the outside of the arm. As you know, this results in about a 5-degree angle on the control rod. I guess this reduces precision of elevator control a little, but will that matter for a learner pilot ?

Thanks for your time,
Kenneth
I still like to use nuts for the balls.... I know a lot of people that dont but I just dont trust it. If you have the nuts I would say use them.

For #2 yes this actually is better as you getting more servo resolution. Just make sure you have enough throw!

For #3, I am not sure what you mean.... Can you atke a picture?

Bob
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:32 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Yes put the battery in the tray in fron of the motor. FOr the ESC tie wrap that to the side of the frame along side the motor.

This is how I did it on the old frames.

Bob
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:02 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quote:
3) I don't have a Dremel so at this stage I have mounted the elevator ball on the outside of the arm. As you know, this results in about a 5-degree angle on the control rod. I guess this reduces precision of elevator control a little, but will that matter for a learner pilot ?
For #3, I am not sure what you mean.... Can you atke a picture?
Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that I have mounted the ball on the outward face of the elevator servo arm rather than grinding the ball down so that it will fit on the inner face. This means that the pushrod is not quite parallel to the heli frame.

However, when I tried it on the inner face I found that on the HM65 there is no need to grind down the ball since it doesn't bind on the servo case

Thanks for the photo of your HDE frame. It looks like you have done a CCPM conversion on the frame in that photo, so the servo mounting arrangement is very different to the standard HDE setup. But it is useful to see the overall layout with respect to CG.


Thank you.
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Old 06-16-2006, 10:19 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Yes I had done a CCPM mod to the frame but the purpose of the picture was to show where to put the ESC. BTW a liitle shoe goop helps keep it from sliding around under the tie wraps.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:10 AM   #70 (permalink)
 
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Hiya Bob, it's me again

I know you're still busy with family, I just wanted to ask though if you had a proposed date for the addtional vids for the tail to complete the HDE videos? No hurry though, family always comes first

Cheers!
Shaun
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:20 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Shaun... what specifically are you looking for on the tail?

Bob
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:45 AM   #72 (permalink)
 
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eh...the whole tail build?

actually, i just wanted to make sure before I proceed with it, since you have so many tips I find on the videos I don't find on the manual. I'm done with the whole thing,except for the tail part, boom...you know the rear end

cheers
shaun
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:55 AM   #73 (permalink)
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OK, I will try to squeeze one out but it probably wont include servo install.....


Bob
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Old 06-17-2006, 11:14 AM   #74 (permalink)
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I have completed (I think) the HDE head setup. Took me ages as it's all new to me and I know how important it is to do a good job.

Getting the right pitch range (+11 to -11)
===========================
I couldn't get more than +10 pitch (and that's at 110% travel) and had to limit servo travel at the negative end to bring the negative pitch down from -12 to -10. I guess that means I didn't have the pitch control arm properly neutral at the start. I just eyeballed that the gap in the limiting slot was the same above and below the arm as I couldn't find a simple way of measuring it with any accuracy. I think I can fix this now by simply adjusting the link between the servo and the pitch control arm and then redoing all the pitch settings. Is that right or will I throw out something else in the head ?

Normal interaction ?
=============
I find that with the blades in line with the frame and the flybar crosswise, if I cycle between max +ve and max -ve pitch the flybar will be tilt down on the left side. Is this normal or a sign of something wrong ?

Blade holders - how tight ?
=================
On my W5-3 coaxial the blades were loose enough to flop around in the holders if you tipped the heli. This was the recommended setup as the blades would centrifugally self-align at spin-up. How tight do you make the blade holders/blades on a TRex ?

I see that people store/transport with the blades folded back along the boom. Does this mean they have to restraighten and tighten the blades as part of flight-prep ? Is there a simple trick to making sure the blades are straight (ie the leading edge is at 90deg to the flybar) before tightening them ?

Thanks,
Kenneth
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* MSH Protos Stock motor/15t/Align75/Align DS510/GL730+DS520/7s A123 2300
* TRex450CF/430L/12t/CC45/HS65mg/L2100T/KP 3s 2200 25C or 4S LiFe
Previous rides: HX242, W5-4, TRex450(HDE), TRex450(SE), QJ-EP8v2, BCX2 ,Logo10, Hurricane550
SIM: Phoenix (previously also Reflex/XTR, ClearView, RF, FMS)
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Old 06-17-2006, 11:31 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
think I can fix this now by simply adjusting the link between the servo and the pitch control arm and then redoing all the pitch settings. Is that right or will I throw out something else in the head ?
Yes that is right.

Quote:
I find that with the blades in line with the frame and the flybar crosswise, if I cycle between max +ve and max -ve pitch the flybar will be tilt down on the left side. Is this normal or a sign of something wrong ?
The flybar may tip in any direction... You can hold it level with your hand and move the pitch full in both directions right? The flybar is on a seesaw and is always free to move no matter where the pitch is. If not then you have something wrong....

Quote:
Blade holders - how tight ?
On a Trex you want them fairly tight e.g. they should not flop around on thier own... It's hard to explain how tight in a post so snug them down until they do not flop on thier own for now.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2006, 12:08 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Double-bubble technique for ensuring the flybar is level

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
The flybar may tip in any direction... You can hold it level with your hand and move the pitch full in both directions right?
Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
The flybar is on a seesaw and is always free to move no matter where the pitch is. If not then you have something wrong....
Bob
OK, it's free to move, so at least I've got that right

I also find that, with a Mode2 Tx, if I move the collective (rhs) control stick in a clockwise circle then the main shaft will start to rotate clockwise (no motor installed) and if I move it in a counter-clockwise direction the main shaft will rotate counter clockwise. Is this OK or a sign of too much friction in the head ? I have read of folks puting a drop of oil on the top of the swashplate to lubricate where the inner plastic plate moves on the metal collar. Is this a good idea ? (I guess by now you can tell I'm a detail-oriented kind-of-guy :wink: )

FYI - Double-bubble technique for ensuring the flybar is level
==========================================
Given that the dining room table is not level and that we want at least +/- 0.5deg accuracy, it seemed to me that just eyeballing if the flybar is level is not reliable. So I came up with the following (although this might be overkill)?:

Assumptions
--------------
1) For the flybar, "level" means at 90deg to the main shaft axis
2) Tail boom is also at 90deg to the main shaft axis (which is why the boom mount is a good place for gyros).

Setup
----------
a) Rest a bubble level in a fore/aft orientation on the top of the boom mount box (you know, the bad place to mount your gyro).
b) Use (thin) double-sided tape to place a bubble level along one of the flybar paddles

Usage
---------
Before making head or pitch adjustments ensure that the bubble positions on both levels match. It is not important if the bubbles are not dead-centre (ie the heli is not truly level) just that they are both in the same position.

Regards,
Kenneth
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Old 06-17-2006, 08:40 PM   #77 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
OK, I will try to squeeze one out but it probably wont include servo install.....


Bob
Don't forget belt tension....please, please, please
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:38 AM   #78 (permalink)
 
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tnx bob, no hurry though. remember family comes first.

i have just one comment for Align, I thinkthis would go for all trex owners...I've just finished installing my servos and the links on them, and for fun, I just took the canopy and snapped it on. Who the hell in Align thinks they can get away with the canopy that narrow???! almost all the links on the CCPM version rub the bloody canopy!! I've already installed the balls on the inside as recommended by the manual, but they're still rubbing!!! is it just me??!
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:53 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shauntot
tnx bob, no hurry though. remember family comes first.

i have just one comment for Align, I think it would go to all trex owners...I've just finished installing my servos and the links on them, and for fun, I just took the canopy and snapped it on. Who the hell in Align thinks they can get away with the canopy that narrow???! almost all the link on the CCPM version rub the bloddy canopy!! I've already installed the balls on the inside as recommended by the manual, but they're still rubbing!!! is it just me??!
I am building an HDE and I found the same thing. That is, the canopy presses against (at least) the vertical links from the collective control arm up to the swash plate.
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:56 AM   #80 (permalink)
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No it is not just you... This is the problem with the CCPM version of the XL.
The easiest fix is to drill the holes for the canopy pins farther forward on the frame which will move the canopy up and forward a bit and they will clear. Another way but can cause a tiny bit of geometery problems is to flip the servos so the output shafts are at the bottom. I did one this way and it worked out fine.
One other way is to dump the push pull setup fromt he servos and only use the bottoms of the two bell cranks.
Even others have cut holes inthe canopy (yuck).

Bob
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