swash reactions - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > Flight Stabilization


Flight Stabilization Flight Stabilization


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2011, 05:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default swash reactions

Just installed fm today and was watching the swash plate movements I dont think it is correct
When I throttle up every things works like it is suppost to but now here is the problem
When I throttle up the swash does not stay level no matter what I do the airleron is low at high stick or pitch is low at low stick
or will this matter when the heli is flying around?
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-27-2011, 05:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 17,439
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island, NY AMA#972083 FAA#FA397AT9NF
Default

...
__________________

nightflyr is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 06:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
Just installed fm today and was watching the swash plate movements I dont think it is correct
When I throttle up every things works like it is suppost to but now here is the problem
When I throttle up the swash does not stay level no matter what I do the airleron is low at high stick or pitch is low at low stick
or will this matter when the heli is flying around?
Not enough info.
Are the servo arms level or very close to level at midstick ?.
Is the swash tipping correctly when you tip the heli, opposit from the way you tip the heli,side to side and fore and aft in order to keep the heli level ?.
Is the swash moving correctly when you operate elevator and aileron ?.
How much out of level is the swash at max and min pitch ?.
Have you set up the heli and TX following the instructions sticky at the top of the page ?.
Are all endpoints set at 100% ?.
Were the servos set midway at 50% stick and did you set a linier curve for setting up FM ?..
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 06:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CWB - Brazil
Default

AKPhill,

Swashplate level are adjust on-the-fly by flymentor gyro position.
After you set correctly the servo movement directions ah helibal you can pick flymentor gyro in your hand and free move it... remember to point to same direction of ccd camera and helibal config an make some movement, suposed to do the opposite movement that you make in gyro... when you move gyro to front the swashplate need to move do back.
Take a look at this video to see the correct behavior:


If your flymentor not moving like in this video, need to take more time adjusting servo directions and servo control at helibal.

Neppon
Neppon is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 07:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

this heli has been flown almost hands off conditions 500 trex
so I know it flies almost perfect so here is my dilemma
I installed the fm unit set it up according to the sticky up top of page
I didnt use the fm gyro trying to stay with my current gyro
when you tilt heli around the swash moves to counter movement
all trims are set to 0 the 6 ex fast radio doesnt have subtrims so they should be good
now when you raise the throttle to center stick swash is level raise stick to full collective and the aireleron servo is about 10 degrees out from level lower the swash and the pitch servo now is about 10 degrees lower than the aireleron servo if I try to trim this out I cant find any happy point at all
I hope this helps you guys understand my problem better
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 08:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Not sure about this but give it a try. Set the swash type back to original setting on TX, that will switch on the TX mixer, then go to swash travel and increase the travels. Set swash back to single servo and see if it has made a difference.
I dont think this will do anything but a guy reported a similar problem some time ago and said that doing the above fixed it. BTW I assume you mean that you are not useing the FM gyro for your tail but it is installed and controlling the swash. Yes I know stupid question but it has been done before more than once but since you have said the swash is tipping it must be installed, yes ?.. Good luck.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 08:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

Maybe that is what is wrong
I set the the swash as single servo movement and the elevator and the aireleron servo would move not the pitch servo but yet when you moved right stick left and right it would move or move right stick forwards and backwards it would move so I set swash type back to eccpm and now it all moves the way it is supost to but the swash does not move equaly in pitch like I said the airleron doesnt move all the way up and the pitch moves too fayr and cant seem to get it adjusted properly
Maybe this unit is bad
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2011, 09:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CWB - Brazil
Default

AKPhill,

First pick up manual and confirm all your head link sizes, please do it carefully or could have problems like lower pich.

I have a (r.i.p) futaba t6ex fasst too and know his config options.
Take a look yout servo reverse options and create a new "HELI RC" profile, change SWSH to 1S and put your reverse options.
In flymentor take note of your servo and control reverse options and other things that you changed, conect to helibal using windows xp and make a "factory defaults", put JUST your servo and control reverse options back and save then make a test.
****** Donīt use any another windows or emulated system to configure helibal, you will have very bad settings (crazy) and it cost me a nail by a reverse main rotor rotation ***
Please, confirm that you leave at control tab, travel options default value 100.
If you still have lower amount of pitch movement try up travel to more than 100 at control tab.

Pacience and good luck

Neppon
Neppon is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2011, 02:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
Maybe that is what is wrong
I set the the swash as single servo movement and the elevator and the aireleron servo would move not the pitch servo but yet when you moved right stick left and right it would move or move right stick forwards and backwards it would move so I set swash type back to eccpm and now it all moves the way it is supost to but the swash does not move equaly in pitch like I said the airleron doesnt move all the way up and the pitch moves too fayr and cant seem to get it adjusted properly
Maybe this unit is bad
Flymentor will not work correctly unless you set your Tx swash type to 1 servo.
Carry out this test, Connect your servos back on your reciever as they were before, in swash type set to 1 servo. Now move your sticks, each stick movement should only operate 1 servo. So move thottle stick and 1 servo should move ( only 1 ) move aileron stick and another servo should move, move aileron stick and the third servo should move. So all servo's should move but only 1 at a time.
If this happens yout Tx is set correctly for FM, rewire FM. Plug with 3 wires connect to channel 1 on your reciever, yellow to channel 2 and orange to channel 6.
Looking at the heli from the rear connect the servo that operates the left hand side of you swash to port 1 on the FM moduel, the servo thats operates the right hand side of the swash to port 2 and the servo that operate the rear of the swash to port 3.
Connect FM gyro and camera.
Set programme back to factory defaults and send to FM. Now follow the set up sticky in the order it is written. Setting auto movements of swash must be done before setting stick directions. Hope this helps,let us know
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 12:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

OK this fm unit is strange I finally have all the servos moving the same speed and the same distance.
but when you rock the heli forwards and backwards the swash moves same direction but works fine from left to right
ok according to the sticky up top you switch the ports 1 and two and program again well did not work still moves in same direction as heli ?
this is driving me nuts trying to figure out

Now here is the part that really is driving me nuts when you flip the sensor upside down the swash moves as it is suppost to

So is there a problem with mounting the sensor on the bottom of the heli upside down ?
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CWB - Brazil
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
OK this fm unit is strange I finally have all the servos moving the same speed and the same distance.
but when you rock the heli forwards and backwards the swash moves same direction but works fine from left to right
AKPhill,
I has have a problem installing FM in a belt cp v2... the solution was put flymentor gyro upside down, just the flymentor gyro.

Try it!

My belt flying with BAT-Gyro


ps.: take a look now and my t-rex 500esp was instaled FM gyro upside down too

Neppon
Neppon is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 04:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Not sure why the instuctions about swopping ports is not working for you it has done for many others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
OK this fm unit is strange I finally have all the servos moving the same speed and the same distance.
but when you rock the heli forwards and backwards the swash moves same direction but works fine from left to right
ok according to the sticky up top you switch the ports 1 and two and program again well did not work still moves in same direction as heli ?
this is driving me nuts trying to figure out

Now here is the part that really is driving me nuts when you flip the sensor upside down the swash moves as it is suppost to

So is there a problem with mounting the sensor on the bottom of the heli upside down ?
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 04:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

LOL I have swapped those wires so many times the pins are getting worn out and reprogramed the flymenter till I see it it my sleep and this is the closest I have gotten to be able to fly it
Makes me wonder if they didnt put the sensor together backwards
will let everyone know how the flight comes out after all the tests are done
thanks to everyone here who has helped
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 07:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CWB - Brazil
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
Not sure why the instuctions about swopping ports is not working for you it has done for many others.
Ivor, whe canīt use positive or negative values at swash mix because need to change to H1 and in some rare cases the elevator servo stay reversed (like in belt cp) relative to aileron and pitch... then or you revert elevator direction open and wireing motor of your servo or just use flymentor upside-down (I call it BAT-Gyro, hehehehe). As you see at my birds all they fly nicely and using upside-down gyro at belt and 500 esp.

AKPHill, donīt forget to post some videos

Nice fly to anyone!

Neppon
Neppon is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 10:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Philippines
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
this heli has been flown almost hands off conditions 500 trex
so I know it flies almost perfect so here is my dilemma
I installed the fm unit set it up according to the sticky up top of page
I didnt use the fm gyro trying to stay with my current gyro
when you tilt heli around the swash moves to counter movement
all trims are set to 0 the 6 ex fast radio doesnt have subtrims so they should be good
now when you raise the throttle to center stick swash is level raise stick to full collective and the aireleron servo is about 10 degrees out from level lower the swash and the pitch servo now is about 10 degrees lower than the aireleron servo if I try to trim this out I cant find any happy point at all
I hope this helps you guys understand my problem better
Turn off the FM by inserting a gain off zero and try it again!
if it is the same sero travel is the cause! chech the servo horns on center stick to be 90 or perpendicular to the horizon!
jbx907 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2011, 10:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Philippines
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKPhill View Post
Maybe that is what is wrong
I set the the swash as single servo movement and the elevator and the aireleron servo would move not the pitch servo but yet when you moved right stick left and right it would move or move right stick forwards and backwards it would move so I set swash type back to eccpm and now it all moves the way it is supost to but the swash does not move equaly in pitch like I said the airleron doesnt move all the way up and the pitch moves too fayr and cant seem to get it adjusted properly
Maybe this unit is bad
take note of servo positions: arrangements
servo 1 is pitch servo
servo 2 is aileron servo
servo 3 is elevator servo
when you choose 120 ccpm in the flymentor,this is the setup!

you can also check on the flymentor the servo connections, 1 - 5 from bottom to top!
120ccpm does not require 4 socket to be connected!
if this is ok, check your rx to FM connections!
in your case you need to check only 3 connection coz you have a separate gyro directly connected!

i always set the servo swash movements in the control tab first, move the heli andrev what need to be rev there.
then go to the servo tabs and check servo stick movements and rev what need to be reversed!
then you start setting up the servo arms thru trims!

if still have problems your rx to FM is not correct!
jbx907 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2011, 03:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

Which servo left or right is aileron or pitch is the choice of the heli owner/builder. Looking at the heli from the rear the servo that operates the left side of the swash will be pitch to some people and aileron to others, see trex manual.
The FM programme is a copy of the HC programme and HC expects the left servo to be aileron and connected to port 1, the right hand servo to be connected to port 2 and the rear servo to port 3 if the heli has a rear mounted elevator servo.
If the heli has a front mounted elevator servo it expects the left hand servo to be connected to port 2 and right hand servo to port 1.
Servo reversing which should be done first is done under the servo tab.
Stick reversing which should be done second is done under the control tab.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2011, 09:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

Ok since I only have a 6 channel rx on the 500 I cannot hook the fm to a aux channel and program the 3 way switch to operate it I have to choose witch mode I should use.
I am thinking stabilization mode over position mode do you fella's have any thought's on this
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2011, 04:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plymouth devon UK
Default

I like to fly scale like so all my flymentors are permanently in position mode, I like the precise control it give me when close to the ground. Above about 2-3 metres FM automatically switches to balance mode.
Ivor Hill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-14-2011, 05:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 702
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Soldotna Alaska
Default

Thankyou I will setup then in position mode
Almost there
AKPhill is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1