Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Blade Helicopters (eFlite) > mCP X Brushless Mods


mCP X Brushless Mods Blade Micro CPx Brushless Mods and Conversions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default My Hawk-RC 10A ESC/converter and hp05s motor thread

My Hawk-RC brushless 10A ESC/converter and hp05s have finally arrived after stuck at Canada Customs for a week, way longer than the time in transit from Hong Kong to Canada Customs (2 days) and from Customs to my door (6 hours).

First test is a straight swap out (plug-and-play) of my 6A ESC for direct comparison with my current c05m v2 motor setup. Somehow the new ESC was programmed at low timing advance. A quick re-pogram and it's ready to go. The new ESC feels every same way as the 6A ESC except that burst power is stronger. No random speed drop. Smooth part throttle response (between 0-50%), maybe smoother than 6A ESC but I'm not sure. I spend very little time using this throttle range. With my current setup I don't go beyond 85% pitch ATV as the motor just bogs with not much lift gain. With the 10A ESC I try 97.5% pitch ATV and it really pops so much so the stock 6mm tail can't hold.

Next is hp05s installation. It's more involving than the c05m v2 installation in terms of amount of material to be removed from the stock frame. That said, it takes no sweat to remove material with my dremel. Be aware that the right servo mount post is one point that's easy to miss. Also, make sure the wires coming out of the motor don't prevent the motor to be mounted flat on the frame. I place my hot-glue gun tip on a piece of aluminum flashing leaning against the heat-shrink tube coming out of the motor to soften it and lay it flat so that the motor can be mounted flat on the stock frame. Even with as little material removed as possible from the stock frame, I can see how the frame is weakened. Before my frame brace and 8T shipment arrive from Astoid Designs, I'll try not to do something crazy to stress the frame for now.

To get the gear mesh run-in, I use my indoor model on my DX6i to fly a few batteries. This indoor model runs tamed-down throttle curves and cyclic ATVs. Flies perfectly smooth with absolutely no vibration. Perfect gear mesh. I don't know if the 10A ESC has its part-throttle response tweaked or if the hp05s is less efficient at part-throttle or because I'm running 9T or my hp05s is one of the stronger ones (in terms of current draw) out of the batch, this new setup is running a lower head speed than the c05m v2 setup running the same indoor model with the same amount of part-throttle. Flight time with hovering and simple circling is a mere 4:00. In comparison, the c05m v2 setup does 5:30+.

It's time to switch to the full throttle outdoor model. I know the head speed is going to be crazy so I start off with 50% pitch ATV. First spin-up is like "wow, that's some serious head speed". Next thing I get is... "vibration". It's the kind of vibration when you go to neg pitch and back to pos pitch then the bird shivers sideways at about 10Hz. This vibration did not occur at the lower head speed with the c05m v2 motor setup. Even at mid-discharge state with a tiny bit lower head speed this vibration doesn't happen. After replacing the couple old pitch links with new ones (they got quite a bit loose) and checking everything for balance, vibration can still happen. I know it'll take more time to investigate but for now I just take it easy and if I don't give neg pitch then it's fine with no vibration at all. Full pos pitch pop is very solid which is understandable with this head speed. Just for kicks I programmed the gyro/gear switch on my Tx to boost pitch ATV to 75% and full pos pitch pop is crazy! Flight time with hovering, some simple circling, and a few full pos pitch pumps (no way I can do full neg pitch in my bedroom) gets me 3:30. In comparison, the c05m v2 setup gets me 4:30+.

After a few flights it's time for some thrust tests. I know it's not going to be the best results with the vibration in mind. The head speed with 9T is just crazy. Even with just 50% pitch ATV, I get 134g peak thrust and 110g continuous thrust.



Although neither the motor nor ESC run hot in the thrust tests, it's quite apparent that the tests are pushing the 300mAh batteries and perhaps the connector as well. All my batteries (Nanotech 300, Lightning Power 300, Hawk-Power 300, Hyperion 250) run quite noticeably warmer than running thrust tests with the c05m v2 motor. Blue LED on the 3-in-1 board getting dimmer and thrust #s getting worse at 65% pitch ATV are also good indications. On hindsight, I should've tried lower pitch ATV and see if I could get even bigger thrusts. The significantly higher head speed is more prone to vibration and therefore during thrust tests the gyros are confused and induce cyclic correction even though the heli has no attitude change while strapped down, thus bogging down motor and reducing max thrust. I have to momentarily engage throttle hold to "reset" swash tilt back to level between each full collective.

Time to work on the vibration while waiting for my frame brace and 8T to arrive. Also need to consider changing battery plug to JST or micro deans. ...all those "good" problems to have with good power.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-24-2012, 06:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 668
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Default

Thanks for the write up..

Does the 10A ESC get Hot.. When I pair The HP05s with the 6A ESC from Hawk.. it was hot..

Hope to get mine after the Chinese N.Y. I think Benny is still having their holiday..

quest
__________________
life is not the amount of breath you take, its the moment that take your breath away
questerng is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2012, 08:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

No, not hot at all even with brutal thrust test. But then the blue LED on the 3-in-1 board dims on long full collective thrust test so the heat goes to the battery and probably some to the connector. This is indoor at about 19C.

Upon close inspection, I realize the rotor hub has a very small crack most likely from the encounter last week with the tree at hovering speed. I was going to go get a new hub and the mail came in with my Astroid Designs package: frame brace and 8T. Looks like I'll be busy for some time tonite again.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 08:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,064
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

DoubleCH, are you going to be sticking with the 300 and 250mah lipos? I'm gonna buy some Hyperion 550 (or are they 500's? Still need coffee this morning) when I switch over to the HP05. I'm sure you already know this, but they come with JST's installed.

Would be interesting to see the results you get with the bigger batteries and connectors.
SuperBee364 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 09:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

After installing Astoid Designs frame brace and spending a couple of days waiting for good weather and working out the vibes issues, I finally have a chance to fly it at the park today. It's like a whole new bird even compare to my c05m v2 setup. I haven't got the 8T on because even after heating the 9T on the motor I still can't get it off. Will get a gear puller for that later.

It's quite windy today (32km/h wind) so I can't use my favorite park on top of the hill which is highly susceptible to wind/gusts. It's still quite windy at my alternative flying park but the high head speed of the hp05s copes with it quite well. It takes some time to get use to the new found power, especially when starting this new setup in the wind (e.g. gain altitude during flips). Max flip rate is noticeably faster with 100% cyclic D/R (and 30% expo) where it used to bog down the main motor. For now I limit max pitch travel to 69% (and +10% boost with the gyro/flap switch) because of the 9T instead of 8T and the stock 6mm tail motor can't hold. I have a new 7mm tail motor with tail boom ready but at the last minute I found out there's some power glitch to the tail motor (most likely connector issue) so I stick with the 6mm for today.

I set my flight timer to 3:00 and a few times I get greedy and try to fly it a bit longer and it hits LVC around 3:40. Because of the higher current draw, LVC actually kicks in sooner. Of all the cases LVC kicks in, no-load resting voltage is still above 3.70V. Of the times I stop at 3:00, no-load resting voltage ends up around 3.79-3.80V.

Since I fly idle-up mode 99.9% of the time, I figure I use my normal mode throttle just for take-off/landing/precision flying. I set my normal curve to 0-15-25-37.5-50. Note that with plug-and-play operation, anything above 60% equals 100% throttle. The more I use this throttle range the more I believe this ESC runs better throttle resolution between 0-50% throttle compare to the old 6A ESC. I can actually fly in normal mode with this throttle curve like a stock bird. Neither the ESC nor motor run hot even with this throttle curve. For idle-up throttle curve I run 100% flat.for now. Might try something else later.

With limited day light and batteries (down to 8 now, 1 Hyperion and 1 Lightning Power died), I can't try out many things at once. Will have to wait for another flying day weather. I'm happy with the setup so far.



Sorry about picture quality. Last time I used my 808 cam I set its focus to super close-up to aim at the swashplate from the tail boom. I forgot to set the focus back to normal.

Last edited by DoubleCH; 01-27-2012 at 01:12 AM..
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 09:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBee364 View Post
are you going to be sticking with the 300 and 250mah lipos? I'm gonna buy some Hyperion 550 (or are they 500's? Still need coffee this morning) when I switch over to the HP05. I'm sure you already know this, but they come with JST's installed.
I'll buy some Hyperion 550 and Nanotech 600 for sure. That's why I wonder if it's good time to upgrade to JST connector. And then I thought about making a JST-to-2-mCPx connectors to try out running 2 300mAh batteries in parallel. But then, if I need to solder battery wires on the ESC anyways maybe I just try soldering on another battery plug to test 2P first. So many things so little time before flying weather today.

To be honest, a 3:00 flight time doesn't seem too bad actually. I use to set my timer for c05m v2 setup very conversatively at 3:30 and 3:00 doesn't feel too bad. But then, once I get 550/600 batteries I'll upgrade to twin-tail or 120SR tail and up max pitch travel.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 09:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Default

are you running stock V2 tail with this setup?
__________________
-----------------------------------------
mSR, mCP X, TREX 450 Sport, Compass Atom 500 ( build in progress), dx6i
phoenixRC is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 10:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Stock v1 original tail motor v3 tail blade (squary one).
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 10:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleCH View Post
Stock v1 original tail motor v3 tail blade (squary one).
and do you find that it holds well for your style of flying?
__________________
-----------------------------------------
mSR, mCP X, TREX 450 Sport, Compass Atom 500 ( build in progress), dx6i
phoenixRC is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2012, 11:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

This tail setup is just for temporary use (forgot to mention it has extended boom 155mm from mainshaft to tail motor shaft). With 69% max pitch, 9T, and easy on the collective, I can get it to hold ok. It's definitely the weakest link at the moment. You can see how it performs in the posted youtube video.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,874
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

does soft start work? Or is there soft start?

I really hate spooling up in normal, i like flicking out of throttle hold straight to 100%.
__________________
XLPower 520 - Spirit
XK K110 - BLheli
TX: Fr-Sky X9 Lite
P.I.Engineer is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Soft-start works perfect. If anything it works better than my 6A version with c05m v2 setup. Benny at Hawk-RC mentioned the 10A version and the new 6A v2 version works better for both pnp/mcu signal. As I mentioned earlier throttle feels more linear than my older setup. I programmed ESC to use kick-start and solely rely on 3-in-1 board soft-start.

Check out my thrust test video on the first post. I started off with throttle-hold and idle-up.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-27-2012, 10:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,648
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Default

Busy today. Been meaning to come back to this.
caseyjholmes is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 02:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,648
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Default

Finally read through all this.
Am I to understand correctly that you are using the V3 tail and 6mm bullet with the hp05?
I still have yet to watch the videos as I have to wait for morning when I can use my speakers so I don't wake people up. I will come back to look at your flight performance.

I don't like using this big heavy 120SR motor it makes the heli move funny. lol
I may go back to 6mm bullet or Liftbag dual barrel 6mm action soon.
I need to order the brace and mount from A-D and new packs from Hawk-RC
More money I don't have lol

For now just keep choking the brushed one along on the stock dead batteries until it goes up in smoke at some point.

Good to hear the hawk 10A PNP is workin' out so clean.
caseyjholmes is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 02:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Yeah, v3 tail rotor on stock 6mm motor and extended boom for now. Like I said, it's definitely the weakest link. Will try my 7mm tail and v3 tail rotor (or KBDD tail rotor, I have all the parts) to see how much better before I get my twin-tail and 120SR tail ready. It's going to be rainy at least the whole next week so there's no rush.

Don't expect too much from my flying in the video. You will still see the kind of power (both collective and cyclic) with the hp05s though.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-28-2012, 02:57 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,648
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Default

Nah I saw one of your videos before you did a nice upright circle under good control and some climbout testing.

I think you have some good info going around broman it's good to read and watch your stuff. I'm not one to judge people on flight skill. You were doing rainbows the other day.

Some dudes just pick up the heli and smash it all over and I kinda get scared. I don't get that feeling from your vids. hehehe

To be honest I don't know how to hover steady all this flipping and tossing gives me a headache and drains my pocketbook.

As long as we are all having fun. Everyone's input helps. I take all this info in like a sponge.
I can't wait until I get to work in my M5 or whatever they call it!
Until then I'm able to obtain my fix absorbing information like this.
caseyjholmes is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2012, 10:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,064
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

DoubleCH, are you going to go the 120sr tail route, or are ya gonna do a brushlees tail?
SuperBee364 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2012, 12:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

I think eventually when I run 550/600 mAh batteries I'll try out all of these... twin-tail, 120SR tail, brushless tail. But first, I'll wait for some good weather to try out my 7mm tail with 300mAh batteries first.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2012, 02:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 713
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

Thanks for all the good info.
My Hawk-RC 10A esc is on its way.
I received my Oversky HP05S motor from Astro Designs. The 3 leads are all the same copper color, no color coded, as shown in pics here
http://astroid-designs.myshopify.com...rushless-motor

How do you connect them to the ESC? which lead go to which pin on the ESC or it doesn't matter?
__________________
Blade mCPX | TRex 550e | TRex 500DFC | DX8
Helix G700 17T, HC3sX, CY F270, GV1/SG, Century V2, Generator
FastRunner is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2012, 02:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,689
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

No need to color-code 3 wires from the brushless motor. If it runs in the other direction, just swap out any 2 wires or program the ESC to run reverse.
DoubleCH is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1