Noise ordinances and our hobby. - HeliFreak
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopters > Main Forum - Helicopter Talk


Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default Noise ordinances and our hobby.

Guys, as many of you know, I've been flying in a large vacant lot behind my neighborhood. The lot is clearly marked with "No Trespassing" signs, but it has been vacant now for over 12 years. I've been in this neighborhood for 11 years and flying there for the last 3.

In any case, I don't want to regurgitate old history, so I'll just give you an update. There is one neighbor who is adamant about the fact that she doesn't want me flying there, at any time. She called the code enforcement officers on me because of the "No Trespassing" signs and they paid me a visit.

I thought for sure that would be it, but to my surprise, when I walked to the field with the officers (2 of them), they determined that I was not breaking any trespass laws. The signs are indeed posted for the field, but they only apply to land vehicles or persons... the analogy the officer gave me was of a kid standing on the side of the road with a kite. If the kite flies over the field, no problem. If he enters the field to fly the kite, then that's where the trespass occurs.

I was relieved at this point, since essentially that made her complaint against me without merit. However, the officer told me that the thing he could cite me for was the noise being generated by the heli, as measured from her property line.

I flew again this weekend, and again, she called code enforcement. The same officer showed up and I actually took my heli up and did some circuits for him. He said that the noise is not loud, and that the wind is just amplifying it. I was within his "reasonable" test and he let me fly some more... no problem.

However, he says that this lady just won't let it go, and so he will need to come back out to measure the noise level. Here is where it gets interesting. According to our ordinances, the noise level threshold is 60dB. However, it must be measured for a period of no less than 10min and 10% of that time I must be in violation of the threshold.

" L10 sound level. The sound level exceeded for more than ten (10) per cent of a measurement period which for the purposes of sections 15-8 through 15-8.8 shall not be less than ten (10) minutes."

" (a) Sound limits established. No person shall operate or cause to be operated any source of sound as enumerated in section 15-8.5(b), and unless specifically exempted by section 15-8.6, in such a manner as to create an exterior or interior sound level of any origin which exceeds the limits set forth for the receiving land use category in question for more than ten (10) per cent of any measurement period which shall not be less than ten (10) minutes when measured at or within the boundaries of a property or within the confines of a building within the receiving land use and as a result of a source of sound being located on some other property."

(b) L10 sound level limits. Permissible sound levels for sounds transmitted to receiving land use areas shall not exceed the following limits for L10 sound levels as defined herein. For the purpose of these noise control provisions, such sound levels shall be determined using FAST meter responses:

Receiving L10 Sound

Land Use Level Limit Category Time (dB)A
Exterior 7:00 a.m. to
Residential 11:00 p.m. 60


I had read these ordinances prior to flying this weekend and I discussed them with the officer. He was a bit aggravated that I was quoting ordinances from the actual text and kinda barked at me that all he had to do was call an officer and tell him that my heli was too loud and have the officer arrest me. To me, this is nonsense... he was basically trying to intimidate me.

Here's a funny part... I pull out my Radio Shack decibel meter I use for Home Theater calibration and he says "yep, that's the one we use". I turn it on, and it starts reading 68 and 70 db, just with wind noise and us talking. Therefore, I don't see how he can reliably measure my heli, which would be many hundreds of feet away from her property line and at the same time, isolate all other noises. Just doesn't make sense.

I fear this is a battle I will eventually lose, as any determined government employee will find out how to limit my rights... but I figured I would at least avail myself of the same laws they are using against me. I've contacted my attorney for interpretation of the city ordinances and will wait to hear back from the city on this one. Stay tuned!
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Negaunee, Michigan
Default

__________________
):>
Bob O is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,025
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sandia Park, New Mexico
Default

60dba is aproxx the sound of a conversation in a quiet room. That cant be correct.
They must have made a mistake somewhere in the red tape codes. Perhaps a call
or visit with your sound meter to demonstrate the error.
Kneedragger75 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NY
Default

wow, people really are something huh?

How far away is this lady's house from where you fly? Is she outside watching/complaining when you are flying?

She probably can't even here it inside her house right?

Stuff like this really bothers me, why can't people just be reasonable!!

Is there any way you can look at the situation from her perspective and think that it is honestly to loud?
aloys24 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 450
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Miami, FL
Default

Why is this lady being such a b?

And I thought the officer was on YOUR side..

Best of luck Carlos. I would have paid you a visit already if not for the ridiculous gas prices.
__________________
Futaba 8FG AMA # 961861
Tyrannosaurus': 450 Sport : 500 ESP : 700E
MMM.PWR is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 937
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SA
Default

Go speak to her, say Hi and give her a box of chocolates, be kind even if she's not, make her feel special, if that doesn't work then Invite her over and give her a try on the TX.....
Tristin is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM.PWR View Post
Why is this lady being such a b?

And I thought the officer was on YOUR side..

Best of luck Carlos. I would have paid you a visit already if not for the ridiculous gas prices.
I imagine at this point this guy is just tired of coming out here every single time she calls and just wants me to go away. Don't know...
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,542
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florence, Ms.
Default

Wow!! 60db.. Do you live inside a library or something?? haha Doesn't anyone mow there lawns in your neighborhood?? I hope this isn't right.. good luck on it!!
__________________
Kevin Williams
Team OFH
www.onlyfinehelis.com
Cyclone Blades, Scorpion Motors
eagleridge is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristin View Post
Go speak to her, say Hi and give her a box of chocolates, be kind even if she's not, make her feel special, if that doesn't work then Invite her over and give her a try on the TX.....
Buddy, she has now come visit me twice while at the field. The first time she was polite and I was too. I asked her "what time of the day would be better for you? I could limit it to one hour." Her response? "NEVER".

Second time was very confrontational. I had another helifreaker with me as well...we were testing out his 550. I was borderline calling the cops on her for harrassment. She got all up in my face and started screaming.
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger75 View Post
60dba is aproxx the sound of a conversation in a quiet room. That cant be correct.
They must have made a mistake somewhere in the red tape codes. Perhaps a call
or visit with your sound meter to demonstrate the error.
Yes, I know. But its correct per the statute:

Statute
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,206
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Default

You know what... the more and more I read and see the news stories of every day Americans' rights being violated, the more it pisses me off.

If you're not breaking the law, continue doing it. The laws are not only there to ENFORCE people, they are there to PROTECT people too, whether that is from violence, or OVER POLICING.

Who cares if the office is pissed that he has to keep coming out. That's his JOB. If he was sick of coming out there, then he should tell the woman NO LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN, and that if she continues to call, SHE can be cited for attempting to file a false report or something of that nature.

GO HAVE FUN, IT'S YOUR AMERICAN RIGHT!!!!


I sincerely hope you don't have to put up with any more crap Carlos.
__________________
Blade 130X - Stock
mCPx v1 Brushless Stretch (125mm) - WK10A - 11000kv Inrunner - 550 mah - Full CNC Upgrades
Retired Helis - Outrage 550, Trex 500, Logo 400, Others
poor_red_neck is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poor_red_neck View Post
You know what... the more and more I read and see the news stories of every day Americans' rights being violated, the more it pisses me off.

If you're not breaking the law, continue doing it. The laws are not only there to ENFORCE people, they are there to PROTECT people too, whether that is from violence, or OVER POLICING.

Who cares if the office is pissed that he has to keep coming out. That's his JOB. If he was sick of coming out there, then he should tell the woman NO LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN, and that if she continues to call, SHE can be cited for attempting to file a false report or something of that nature.

GO HAVE FUN, IT'S YOUR AMERICAN RIGHT!!!!


I sincerely hope you don't have to put up with any more crap Carlos.
Thanks for the support! Yeah man, I feel the same way, but its a hassle. We're not talking about your garden-variety field either. This is 5 acres of flat grass... vacant, no kids, no dogs, no baseball field, no nothing, just vacant lot. Just perfect for the hobby. I fly electric only to minimize the "disturbance" factor. Been an AMA member for 3 years now to get the proper insurance. Like I said, I've contacted my attorney (all those hundreds of hours I've banked on Pre-Paid Legal will finally pay off!). We'll see...
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 7,737
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Default

HOLY SHIT!!! I just got a response from the city...guess when you say "PLEASE GIVE IT TO ME IN WRITING SO MY ATTORNEYS CAN REVIEW IT" it sparks some interest!

Got a response just now from the code enforcement officer I spoke to yesterday!

Take a look:

"Carlos,
Thank you for your time yesterday and the due diligence that you are taking to ensure you are abiding by the city codes. I reviewed your situation with the chief code officer and the code coordinator and as of right now there is not a code violation to be cited. FYI We do have a noise decibel reader that does get calibrated on a regular schedule. We use the type of reader you have to get a basic reading."


CHARGING PACKS BABY!!!
__________________
Rush 700 * Trex 700N x 2 * Trex 600Pro * Goblin 570 * 450L Dominator - V-Bar on all
AMA #934662
caralmar is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 450
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Miami, FL
Default

Way to go man!
__________________
Futaba 8FG AMA # 961861
Tyrannosaurus': 450 Sport : 500 ESP : 700E
MMM.PWR is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,700
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caralmar View Post
HOLY SHIT!!! I just got a response from the city...guess when you say "PLEASE GIVE IT TO ME IN WRITING SO MY ATTORNEYS CAN REVIEW IT" it sparks some interest!

Got a response just now from the code enforcement officer I spoke to yesterday!

Take a look:

"Carlos,
Thank you for your time yesterday and the due diligence that you are taking to ensure you are abiding by the city codes. I reviewed your situation with the chief code officer and the code coordinator and as of right now there is not a code violation to be cited. FYI We do have a noise decibel reader that does get calibrated on a regular schedule. We use the type of reader you have to get a basic reading."


CHARGING PACKS BABY!!!
__________________
lowflyer101 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 55
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: usa hamilton nj
Default

Bottom line these so called police have to throw there seniority around they don't like to be told what to do. That's my experience with police officers it's a lose lose situation just tell them that there a-- holes and go somewhere else to fly and send the lady who called them a fruit cake and on the message tell her to get a life!!
alexb917 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 153
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North Carolina
Default

Cool...nice to see the good guy win some!
__________________
T-rex 450 Sport(Quark, DS420, 65HB's, 450M/14T), T-rex 250(Quark, DS420, 65MG's, 250SP/15T)
mCPx, mSR(microheli), mSR (stock)
Phoenix Sim

DX8
caniac is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 937
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SA
Default

Hear me out, I'm not at all say you should stop flying or that you should go somewhere else to fly, I believe she is wrong to confront you like this but I'm relatively sure that you should just be nice and polite to her. Don't stand up for your so called rights at this stage because that wont work, try be humble, friend and smile. If you fly with glasses remove them and make eye contact with her ... I'm just trying to help, my 2c worth...

Happy flying!
Tristin is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 937
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SA
Default

Wow this thread is really flying... Well done!
Tristin is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2012, 02:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,206
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristin View Post
Hear me out, I'm not at all say you should stop flying or that you should go somewhere else to fly, I believe she is wrong to confront you like this but I'm relatively sure that you should just be nice and polite to her. Don't stand up for your so called rights at this stage because that wont work, try be humble, friend and smile. If you fly with glasses remove them and make eye contact with her ... I'm just trying to help, my 2c worth...

Happy flying!


Tristin,

I agree with you, that often hospitality and a kind attitude can turn most people around, after they vent their steam.

From reading the prior thread about this issue (about 2 or 3 months ago I think?) she is the exception... He tried the kind positive approach and she's just a b****. No other way to put it. Some people just LIVE to be ornery.


So glad that you got some resolution. Now what's going to happen when this lady starts calling again? Is the code enforcement going to end it there by telling her you're doing nothing wrong? I'm sure you've thought of this, but get at the very least that e-mail, and anything else in writing you can get for the inevitable talk with the police, as she'll probably escalate it to them once the code enforcement tell her to take a hike.
__________________
Blade 130X - Stock
mCPx v1 Brushless Stretch (125mm) - WK10A - 11000kv Inrunner - 550 mah - Full CNC Upgrades
Retired Helis - Outrage 550, Trex 500, Logo 400, Others
poor_red_neck is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1