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mCP X Blade Micro CPx Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 06-01-2012, 12:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default When do you need negative pitch?

I just started flying an MCPX. Yesterday was my first chance to fly in a large area outdoors, and because of the wind, all I did was tail-in flying at different points to the wind. (While I can do banked turns with my MSRX, the MCPX slides into the ground with the same controls of AIL, RUD and ELEV.)

I've tried all the beginner settings I've found and not had much luck with any of them. What's worked best for me so far is 70%/12%, 0, 50, 90, 100, 100 throttle, and a pitch curve that goes from 50 to 95.

My question is in what point in your flying do you need to start working with negative pitch? Do you need it before 3D? I've tried a modest stetting (40-45), and it seems dangerous near the ground when you're learning. Heli seems to find the ground well enough on its own without negative pitch. But sometimes at altitude I thought negative pitch might be better than reducing the throttle a lot to get it down, and losing some control until I could spool it up again.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You're correct, changing throttle (headspeed) is not the desired way to lose or gain lift and altitude, as the reduced rotor speed also reduces stability, and takes longer to respond than a simple change in blade pitch does. Negative pitch is also good in gusty conditions, where the heli can flare and gain altitude quickly, and a little negative is sometimes desirable to maintain altitude and keep the heli from drifting away on the wind.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seldredg View Post
I just started flying an MCPX. Yesterday was my first chance to fly in a large area outdoors, and because of the wind, all I did was tail-in flying at different points to the wind. (While I can do banked turns with my MSRX, the MCPX slides into the ground with the same controls of AIL, RUD and ELEV.)

I've tried all the beginner settings I've found and not had much luck with any of them. What's worked best for me so far is 70%/12%, 0, 50, 90, 100, 100 throttle, and a pitch curve that goes from 50 to 95.

My question is in what point in your flying do you need to start working with negative pitch? Do you need it before 3D? I've tried a modest stetting (40-45), and it seems dangerous near the ground when you're learning. Heli seems to find the ground well enough on its own without negative pitch. But sometimes at altitude I thought negative pitch might be better than reducing the throttle a lot to get it down, and losing some control until I could spool it up again.
If you are new to this and you start to put some negative in the pitch curve, it will be way easier for you to use it afterwards. I always find my self needing some negative even when right side-up to get it down on the wind. This heli is very small and a little wind blows it away or make it lift and if you are depending on 0 pitch to get it down, you may not have that much luck. Also what is your exact pitch curve (you only mention it goes from 50 to 95) on all 5 points?

EDIT: I am using 35% for negative on normal mode,maybe start at 42.5 or so till you get used to it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks, Marty. Things are much easier with headspeed up. Easier to go slow with engine at 100% and full pitch access. Not intuitive for anew flyer.

What's "a little" negative pitch on an MCPX? 40% 45%?
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Like 65L88 said, a constant headspeed and controlling altitude with pitch equals greater stability and control over the heli.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My pitch curve is 50-62.5-75-87.5-100 on both 0 and 1. Right now I'm varying only the Expo setting bettwen 0 and 1 as I find what I like and can control.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I found it alot easier when I first startted flying CP to fly mostly in IU mode and have the pitch curve 0-25-50-75-100. I only used normal mode to take off and land and had pitch curve at 40-45-50-75-100. It's alot easier to control elevation with a constant head speed, since you're new, I would reconmend a flat 70 throttle curve in IU mode until you feel more confident with higher head speeds. As it was said above, this heli is alot more stable with the constant head speed than with varible head speed.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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+1 on the advice to fly in IU. I find it horrible to fly in normal mode with both the head speed and pitch changing at the same time.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The real problem I found from flying the mCX2, mSR & even the mCPX is if you get used to lowering the stick all the way down to bring the heli down as a result of lowered headspeed (Stunt 0), you're setting yourself up for crashes when you switch to actual CP (Idle Up/Stunt 1) flight.

In Stunt 0 flight, when you encounter trouble, you just lower the stick all the way to kill the power. That's fine & dandy until you ingrain that habit into your flying style. When you're in Idle Up/Stunt 1, headspeed remains the same regardless of stick position. Then, you do like I & other people have done - you see your T-Rex 550 with a 4 foot rotor span going down, & you jerk your stick all the way down (because habits tell you you're in Stunt 0) and you suddenly get -12 degree pitch at 2200RPM along with a nice sickening feeling as you watch your baby accelerate into the ground. The result is about $100 if parts if you're lucky. Get used to "Idle Up/Stunt 1" flight characteristics from the get-go & learn to use Flight Modes and Throttle Hold for reducing headspeed and you won't have another bad habit to unlearn when you graduate to larger helis.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UKHeliBob View Post
+1 on the advice to fly in IU. I find it horrible to fly in normal mode with both the head speed and pitch changing at the same time.
+2 I only fly on normal indoors when practising pirouetes to save flight time.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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A couple of nicks on cherry furniture, so far still unseen, suggest I won't be practicing much inside any more except with my MCX2.

I've just about broken the habit of using throttle down instead of throttle hold when I get into trouble, and I've already almost lost a heli because it floated up in a gust and didn't want to come down with no negative pitch available. Semi IU throttle was abig improvement over vsarying both throttle and pitch. I'll try what I have with some negative pitch, and then try IU. I don't like to make too many changes at the same time. Thanks for the advice all.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seldredg View Post
A couple of nicks on cherry furniture, so far still unseen, suggest I won't be practicing much inside any more except with my MCX2.

I've just about broken the habit of using throttle down instead of throttle hold when I get into trouble, and I've already almost lost a heli because it floated up in a gust and didn't want to come down with no negative pitch available. Semi IU throttle was abig improvement over vsarying both throttle and pitch. I'll try what I have with some negative pitch, and then try IU. I don't like to make too many changes at the same time. Thanks for the advice all.
Don't worry! You'll bring it back indoors one day

I personally think the stock idle up pitch throttle curves are fine (just drop pitch travel both ways till you don't blow your tail out on a full collective climb out).

To tame your heli, I would suggest 2 cyclic rates.
50 with 0-10% expo
70 with 10-20% expo

This is what worked for me when I started. Some people like more expo, some like less.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hello I'm Ron
You may find that my beginner settings help you. And there is lots of other information on turning MCPX. ( Don't bank over so much at first ) Please take some time and read threw my text documents and watch the video they will help you in a very big way.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=407020

Once you have a feel for the helicopter, leave the aileron and elevator settings as they are!
Should be 100% with the Travel Adjust at 40 or 50%
Set your idle up throttle at 80% for a few flights then 100%
Pitch curve 0,25,50,75,100

This is a nice setup for schoolyard flying.
Take care the helicopter will be very fast compared to anything you have flown so far!
When you are able to handle the helicopter and are ready to start learning 3D Bump the gain back up to 3D capable see page 6 of MCPC manual.

For flying indoors or low level flying turns and practicing orientations . no reverse pitch is required.

But when you get used to flying MCPX you will find yourself flying the helicopter 100' or more up.
I regularly stand on the centre line of a soccer field and fly my MCPX around the goal posts at ether end of the field.

Reverse pitch gives you the ability to push the helicopter down as your flying. It comes in very handy once you get used to flying in idle up mode.

When flying in normal mode
Up high when you pull the power off in order to descend the helicopter has a tendency to float, it's easy to pull off to much throttle and loose the tail.

Hope this helps you.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by seldredg View Post
Thanks, Marty. Things are much easier with headspeed up. Easier to go slow with engine at 100% and full pitch access. Not intuitive for anew flyer.

What's "a little" negative pitch on an MCPX? 40% 45%?
I usually set a pitch curve in normal mode of either 40-45-50-75-100 or 45-48-50-75-100, depending on the heli. If I remember, the first curve gives around one degree of negative pitch, the latter a couple of degrees or so, pretty much enough to pull the heli down out of an updraft, although I pretty much take off in normal mode and go to idle up the second I have the heli in the air these days, unless I'm flying in close quarters and just doing circuits and orientation flying and such.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by seldredg View Post
A couple of nicks on cherry furniture, so far still unseen, suggest I won't be practicing much inside any more except with my MCX2.

I've just about broken the habit of using throttle down instead of throttle hold when I get into trouble, and I've already almost lost a heli because it floated up in a gust and didn't want to come down with no negative pitch available. Semi IU throttle was abig improvement over vsarying both throttle and pitch. I'll try what I have with some negative pitch, and then try IU. I don't like to make too many changes at the same time. Thanks for the advice all.
At least you didnt nail your wife's two little toes with an mcpx rotor blade like I did.........That was not the maritally correct thing to do.


I had to do this for a little while but she got over it......I think she was milking it for all it was worth
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Actually, I broke one of my wife's toes already, not with a heli. You're right. Not a good thing. Still my wife though. A good thing.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I use standard pitch & throttle settings with 60+30% expo & 100nil rudder. Travel adjustments all @ 100 & 75 pitch+\- I only fly in idle up as negative pitch makes flying a lot easier. I find these settings perfect for forward flight until I get into 3D.

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Old 06-01-2012, 10:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seldredg View Post
Actually, I broke one of my wife's toes already, not with a heli. You're right. Not a good thing. Still my wife though. A good thing.
Be afraid. Be very afraid....
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanXbix View Post
I use standard pitch & throttle settings with 60+30% expo & 100nil rudder. Travel adjustments all @ 100 & 75 pitch+\- I only fly in idle up as negative pitch makes flying a lot easier. I find these settings perfect for forward flight until I get into 3D.

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Well, I have some experimenting to do. Hopefully I'll get it figured out before my DX6i roller switch fails. Getting worse. Sometimes one easy tap, sometimes has to be hard, sometimes 3-4 taps before it takes.
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