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Blade 450X Blade 450X Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 09-04-2012, 06:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Telemetry...

I'm thinking about buying a DX8 with some telemetry for my 450X and while looking for info to understand what would make sense to monitor I finally found these pictures - so now I know the temperature sensor can be used on the 440 motor!

I have a couple of open points:

a) how do you "fix" the sensor next to the motor? Glue to the motor mount? Glue to the motor itself? How do you make sure there is good contact?

b) I'm planning to monitor that (motor temp) and battery voltage. Would monitoring also the RPM make sense?

c) Should I choose the TM1000 or the TM1100? Did not find enough info to decide...

Couple points became three!

Thanks in advance to whoever will help... I know telemetry on the 450X is somehow considered "too much" (or even useless) but I'll really like to do this project sooner or later...
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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imho, don't see the point. Once you get to know your heli and lipos.... shrug.... Keep unnecessary mass off, just imho.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:12 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spykez View Post
imho, don't see the point. Once you get to know your heli and lipos.... shrug.... Keep unnecessary mass off, just imho.
I just think it's cool! Some grams more, some grams less...

And good excuse to buy DX8!
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry then, can't advise!

Have a DX8. It's great! 3 flight modes and backlight will be the main advantage,imho, there are all sorts of other mixes and programs for unusual CCPM setups, tail mixing etc vs a DX7s. Which really don't matter to FBL folk all that much, tbh.

But... to be honest, I think a DX7s might be nearly just as good - just loose out on 1 flight mode and 1 DR and backlighting - that would be what I'd notice most. I dunno Euro wise if the price difference may make a DX7s more tempting. I'd use one, if it were significantly cheaper than a DX8.

I broke the antenna and even that was an easy fix. Get a lipo for it though.

Can't emphasize you'll be much more happy with a lipo.

I'm not even going to bother with telemetry on my 500 protos. But this is a hobby, and it's whatever gives you pleasure ; )

Also:

Not that I have telemetry so I don't have first hand experience, but ..... I don't look at the radio when I fly usually. The vibe/alert warnings can be set... yes.. but honestly - I don't know if it's all that worth while
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I use the TM1100, its 1/2 as long and 1/3 the weight of the tm1000
I only use it for RX voltage and Flight pack voltage, its nice because i use a few different size batteries, along with 4 different C ratings. Not to mention weather, hot summer day vs cold winter day, that coupled with flying style can make a lot of difference in flight time.

Going by pack voltage you always know when its time, don't have to guess
i thought about getting the RPM sensor, but heard it wasnt very accurate. I use a ice lite 50 esc, it logs headspeed . I also use the govenor on it, so after the first flight i checked the log to be sure the govenor was working, after that i know what it is so really dont need the sensor anyway
i just mounted it on the outside of the frame, below the screws for the Tail Drive Shaft Lower Bearing Block/Mount


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Old 09-04-2012, 08:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey Coco, just get a CC Ice Lite 50 as it logs amps, HS, ripple, voltage etc etc and has a gov into the bargain!
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco66 View Post
I'm thinking about buying a DX8 with some telemetry for my 450X and while looking for info to understand what would make sense to monitor I finally found these pictures - so now I know the temperature sensor can be used on the 440 motor!

I have a couple of open points:

a) how do you "fix" the sensor next to the motor? Glue to the motor mount? Glue to the motor itself? How do you make sure there is good contact?

b) I'm planning to monitor that (motor temp) and battery voltage. Would monitoring also the RPM make sense?

c) Should I choose the TM1000 or the TM1100? Did not find enough info to decide...

Couple points became three!

Thanks in advance to whoever will help... I know telemetry on the 450X is somehow considered "too much" (or even useless) but I'll really like to do this project sooner or later...
I just installed the TM1000 telemetry module that came with my DX8 on my 450X over the weekend. One advantage of having it, for me anyway, is the ability to verify that the battery I just installed is indeed fully charged. It also has a "after flight" review feature so you can check if there were any degradation in signals (frame losses) during the flight. I also mounted the temp sensor around the base of the motor to get temp readings.

To answer your questions:

a) The temp sensor can be looped at the base of the motor mount. The loop size is adjustable and is tightened by a couple of plastic tubes that you can slide. I did not need to use any glue at all. Note that this sensor can also be looped around a battery if that is the one you want to monitor. On my flights I am getting a reading of between 40 and 47 C. Immediately after landing, it shoots to around 51 C... the air from the blades keeps the motor cooler.

b) I have not monitored RPM yet so no comment.

c) TM1100 is the smaller brother of TM1000 and is lighter but has limitations on the number of parameters you can monitor.

EDIT: here is an image of the TM1000 on the lower back side of the 450X frame. I am still thinking where I can attach the sat receiver that came with my DX8 :-)

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Last edited by cyclo; 09-04-2012 at 10:54 AM.. Reason: Attach pic
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks everybody!

So at the moment I would do
- TM1100, smaller and lighter
- Pack voltage, with the EC3 cable from Spektrum
- Motor temperature, looping around the motor base/mount

Keep posting your opinions and tricks!
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can create your own ec3 "adapter" where you can connect the voltage sender wires coming from the TM1000. One tip I could give is don't set/enable the voltage alarms for the first couple of flights until you get an idea of the lowest voltage reading that you are getting on a typical flight.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey Coco, yea, definitely go with the 1100, you don't need the full range module. It's HUGE compared to the small one. In case you didn't know, the telemetry module comes with the wiring to measure an external voltage. You just need to splice into the battery connector on the ESC. I also almost purchased that special harness, but didn't because it's difficult enough already to get the canopy on with the battery wires in the way. That extra harness will only make it worse. I also purchased the electric RPM sensor so I have motor RPM, and it works great! Once again though, you need to wire into the ESC wires in order for it to work.

As far as the motor temp, that is a cool idea, but personally, I don't think that will be an accurate point to measure the temp. My gut tells me the base will be cooler. Also, I'd be worried about the wire breaking loose and getting rubbed on by the motor.

Also, new firmware was just released for the DX8 that now enables telemetry data logging to the SD card! I haven't played with it yet, but it's definitely a cool feature, so make sure you update the firmware in the DX8 once you get it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixster View Post
I only use it for RX voltage and Flight pack voltage, its nice because i use a few different size batteries, along with 4 different C ratings. Not to mention weather, hot summer day vs cold winter day, that coupled with flying style can make a lot of difference in flight time.
Exactly! That's what I also think: this will enable me to profit of my batteries better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclo View Post
If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can create your own ec3 "adapter" where you can connect the voltage sender wires coming from the TM1000.
Unfortunately I am a very bad solderer. Just bought a variable temperature one but still... I think I'll buy the adapter, it's 13.90 EUR versus the risk of screwing up my ESC and/or battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper8315 View Post
In case you didn't know, the telemetry module comes with the wiring to measure an external voltage. You just need to splice into the battery connector on the ESC. I also almost purchased that special harness, but didn't because it's difficult enough already to get the canopy on with the battery wires in the way. That extra harness will only make it worse.
See above. Bigger Fusuno will maybe help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper8315 View Post
I also purchased the electric RPM sensor so I have motor RPM, and it works great! Once again though, you need to wire into the ESC wires in order for it to work.
I'll buy the sensor and then see... that it does not get too complicated.


ANYWAY I have to hold my horses since I'm leaving tomorrow for a 10 days business trip, then I'll be backfor one week only before leaving again so... better not to put too much meat on the fire.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Cyclo, I put my satellite on top of the horizontal tail-boom fin. Double sided foam tape. Just don't cover up mounting screws.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I had the telemetry on my 450 3D. I am going to use it on my 600 EFL Pro. It was cool. I had the temp sensor on the motor (like in the pic), the RPM hook up and the main battery voltage hooked up. I mounted the TM100 under the frame.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syko View Post
Cyclo, I put my satellite on top of the horizontal tail-boom fin. Double sided foam tape. Just don't cover up mounting screws.
That's one area where I am thinking of putting it... however the stock wire that came with it is a bit short and I need to get something longer when I next visit my LHS.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've got a TM1100. Agreed that it's TINY compared to the TM1000. Odds are you're never going to be out of range of the TM1100 anyway. I still run a timer, but it's nice to know you have a good pack when connecting and it's a backup should you ignore the timer.

I mounted it perpendicular to the BeastX just to the right of the BeastX, and yes, it covers to mounting holes, but in the case I need to get that apart I pull the double sided tape and remount it when done.

As previous poster said I only use it for the Main/receiver voltage (really the receiver voltage is of limited use as it's always 5/6 volts (depending on switch)) but you get that as a freebie just by having it connected. As for the motor temp...unless you want it to review after a flight it's of limited use. How often are you going to look at your transmitter to see it?

I'd say same for the RPM...how often are you going to use it? Also, I've got the brushless RPM sensor wired on an airplane...it's not so much that it's not accurate...if you have a stable RPM then it's speed matches pretty much exactly with a tach on the prop. It is WAY laggy though, like 1/2 a second behind the prop RPM. I've also found that it's sensitive to being near the speed controller. On the airplane I had it double side taped to the speed controller (as it worked good for wire routing) and it wouldn't work at all. About an inch away it seems fine.

Yes, it adds a little weight, but I think it's awesome to get feedback from the heli!

-T
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclo View Post
That's one area where I am thinking of putting it... however the stock wire that came with it is a bit short and I need to get something longer when I next visit my LHS.
Bad place to put it. You would be subject to a boom strike. When I had my copilot that where I put my main sensor and needless to say I sliced it in half.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I just build an Align EFL 500 and I installed the telemetry becasue I had it. I monitor the battery, mostly good for telling me if I screwed up and installed a used battery or the full one I thought I was getting. I am collecting data though to see what the correlation is between voltagfe left and mhA used during a flight. I put the temperature sensor on the ESC. I read that if (as some beginners do), you lower the throttle setting to make the heli more docile, you can overheat the ESC. Thought it more likely I'd overheat the ESC than the motor.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Coco, you might be able to attach the temp sensor, via a spade lug, to one of the screws
that hold the motor to the aluminum motor mount......in any case, remember to use some thermal compound(used when mounting a computer CPU to its heatsink).

Even though the aluminum motor mount is acting like a heatsink(lowering temp. measurements), at least the motor screw is making contact with the base of the motor itself, so maybe relevant data can be obtained.....

FWIW
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EEngineer View Post
Coco, you might be able to attach the temp sensor, via a spade lug, to one of the screws
that hold the motor to the aluminum motor mount......in any case, remember to use some thermal compound(used when mounting a computer CPU to its heatsink).

Even though the aluminum motor mount is acting like a heatsink(lowering temp. measurements), at least the motor screw is making contact with the base of the motor itself, so maybe relevant data can be obtained.....

FWIW
Thanks, EE and thanks Google Translate and Goole Images to help me understand what you meant!

Did you try that or is it just brainstorming?
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Brainstorming, mostly....

I have a test motor, whose aluminum mount is bolted to the bench for other tests.....

Haven't looked at the sensor, yet.......but I know that the aluminum will act as a heat sink, distorting the temp. readings.....but the motor bolts do engage with threads on the pinion side of the motor......thermal compound is always necessary for proper temp. sensor operation......

You'll just have to be especially careful not to gett the sensor wiring tangled in the motor pinion or the gears.....
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