Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Electronics Support > Flybarless Helicopter Systems > AP and Scale


AP and Scale Discussions for Scale, Multi-blade and AP applications using CSM Cyclock, Helitronix Multi-mixer, Spartan AP2000i, Firmtronix, Digimix-3.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2007, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Default AP2000i w/ camera control?

I am wondering if the AP2000 system is stable enough to operate a second controller for the camera while the heli hovers in hold mode.

I have a DX7 that I was planning on using for flight control and was thinking of getting a DX6 for pan/ rotate/ tilt/ trigger on the cam mount. I would rather not have to rely on a second person to frame the shot, is anyone doing a single person, full control camera system? I was thinking of mounting both controllers on a tray so I can be close to the flight controls if I have to make adjustments. Can anyone provide any feedback on this?
architorture is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-15-2007, 03:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 742
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

That's what the AP2000i is all about. It will provide enough stability to enable the momentary distraction of taking the picture. Of course, many people prefer to work a two-person team, and for video, the benefit of a separate camera operator increase even more.
__________________
Tony Stott
Trex 450 XL,JGF450TH,GY240 500e fuse, and Hubdave CF frame, JGF450TH,GY401, A109 fuse
1/4 scale hot-air balloon and Rokkaku/Sutton FF16 kites, Brooxes KAP rig, Olympus SP350s
13m Spiderbeam mast, Askman mount, A640, all above with 2.4Ghz downlink
Tonystott is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 10:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
HF Support
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Location: US, Virgina
Default There may be more to it

As I understand it, the AP2000i provides CCPM mixing and sensor processing. In and of itself, it does not stabilize the ship.

Stability comes from the various sensors attached. Such as:

Elevator and aeliron gyros. IR (horizon line) sensors, GPS, accelerometer, etc...

How stationary your heli will stay is a function of the sensors you have attached. Gyros will not keep the heli in place at all. Horizon line sensors will try to keep the heli level but, have no way to counter wind. Accelerometers can try to counter movement in any direction but, overtime the heli will still drift. GPS will try to keep it within their distance resolution. GPS with WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) may be slightly more accurate.

Bottom line is, if you can afford to have it drift around within a large area, with a combination of sensors, you can get 'good enough' stability. Still, I would tend to recommend at least a spotter to keep an eye on the heli and nearby hazards.

jrohland
jrohland is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 09:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

I guess I was just wondering how stable it keeps the heli. Stable enough to take my hands off the controls to frame up a shot with another TX? I'm also thinking about going flybarless with the AP2000i and 2 additional gyros. So with the 2 gyros and IR sensor am I pretty good to go? I'm not talking staying absolutely in place in 20 mph winds, just in a rough location to get the shot. Where can I find GPS RX for the AP2000?
architorture is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 10:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 742
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by architorture View Post
I guess I was just wondering how stable it keeps the heli. Stable enough to take my hands off the controls to frame up a shot with another TX? I'm also thinking about going flybarless with the AP2000i and 2 additional gyros. So with the 2 gyros and IR sensor am I pretty good to go? I'm not talking staying absolutely in place in 20 mph winds, just in a rough location to get the shot. Where can I find GPS RX for the AP2000?
Stable enough to frame a shot? Yup! However, I think you have misunderstood the flybarless/2 gyro "option". It is my understanding that the benefits of flybarless +2 gyros relate to improved drivetrain efficiency compared to a flybar-equipped heli, but this is not directly linked to the ability of the heli to remain stationary enough for framing shots.

Mark Webber has direct experience of thie combination of AP2000i and flybarless+gyros, and will no doubt be along shortly
__________________
Tony Stott
Trex 450 XL,JGF450TH,GY240 500e fuse, and Hubdave CF frame, JGF450TH,GY401, A109 fuse
1/4 scale hot-air balloon and Rokkaku/Sutton FF16 kites, Brooxes KAP rig, Olympus SP350s
13m Spiderbeam mast, Askman mount, A640, all above with 2.4Ghz downlink
Tonystott is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-16-2007, 01:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

I understand that the flybarless gyros will not keep the heli in place, but I thought they could be configured to HH mode, so they will maintain their orientation (pitch and roll) better than a flybar heli would. I do mainly want flybarless for the additional efficiency and simplicity though.
architorture is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-16-2007, 07:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,906
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

HH mode and the IR stabilization are at odds with eachother as the AP2000i is configured now. Independantly, they work well. The problem is this: In HH mode, the gyros will fight to overcome the AP2000i's attempts to right the heli. In rate mode, it will work just as if you had a flybar installed. As a matter of fact, I could discern no difference in flight characteristics when the 401's were in rate over having the flybar installed.

HH is a whole different feeling. No bad but different.

As far as efficiency, I'm not sure how much you'll really gain. The gyros did seem to consume quite a bit more of my rx battery than before the conversion.

If it's stricktly for AP, I'd stick with the AP2000i w/IR stabilization.

The reason I wanted to convert was for testing for 3D purposes and to correct an issue I was having with my gasser in the wind. Heavy flybar weights solved the gasser issue.
__________________
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
MarkWebber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-16-2007, 08:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

Thanks. Thats is what I need to know. I will just go with the AP2000i.
architorture is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-22-2008, 11:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Default

Hi, the AP2000i together with IR sensor , they work very well ,when emergency situation all you need to do is : let the stick go back to center... AP 2000i will level your heli fast and safety... I used on my scale HUEY , Good luck.
hueyheli is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-07-2008, 01:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 173
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default where did you put the sensor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyheli View Post
Hi, the AP2000i together with IR sensor , they work very well ,when emergency situation all you need to do is : let the stick go back to center... AP 2000i will level your heli fast and safety... I used on my scale HUEY , Good luck.
Hey Hueyheli,

Where did you put the IR sensor? Do you have any pics?

Charosenz
charosenz is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-31-2008, 04:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Default

excuse me hueyheli, can you describe in details what is requirement for flybarless plus ap especially by using ap2000i? I plan to install one on my heli. I heard its required another 2 gyros. Is that correct?

thanks in advance
aaaahma is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-01-2009, 07:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,906
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

To use the AP2000i for stabilization and flybarless, you will need both the IR sensor and 2 gyros for cyclic. They need not be expensive gyros like you would want for the tail as the cyclic is less demanding of a top quality gyro.
The gyros must be connected between the rx and AP2000i, especially in a eCCPM heli. This also give you easy adjustment of rotor phasing in the AP2000i programming.
__________________
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
MarkWebber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2010, 11:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Hello

Was reading a lot of threads about the AP2000i now and still got one question left:

But some infos beforehand:

I am using it in an Octocopter - and it works quite awesome in terms of leveling the aircraft at any time out. What also works quite good is, it keeps the aircraft away from (big) obstacles, like trees, walls, etc...It does not (most of the time) keep the aircraft away from a person. Sometimes that works too - must have to do with the sensor direction/range.
Of course there is a fight between AP2000i and the aircraft gyro - but only when at around 70% and if you try to steer it. Let it alone and it works fine!

Reading through here and there it seems, that to counterfight wind / and to stay put in place it needs another sensor? Is that right and if yes - which one would you recommend / how to set it up?

Thanks in advance
It's a great product anyways!
ed.ge is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,906
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

There isn't anything available to work as a position hold for the AP2000i.
__________________
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
MarkWebber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2010, 11:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Ok - it is how it is Not too bad anyways.

Today I programmed a mixer that lowers the gyro-gain when the gain for the Ap2000i goes up. The funny thing is, that when the aircraft gyro gain is very low, the Ap2000i tries very hard to push into one direction. I calibrated it in about 10Meters height and also beforehand on a big field. There were no obstacles in the way. --> ?

On the other hand I let it fly towards thick-standing trees and it won't push away from them. When trying the functions with my hand (sensor in front of hand) everything works perfectly.

Is there anything I missed? Are weather conditions important? Today there was overcast sky, no sun.

EDIT: Just found on the net, that overcast sky may decrease the performance. Ok and again - that's how it is )

Thanks in advance. It's really a great product, would be a shame to not use its full potential.
ed.ge is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-24-2010, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,906
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

Quote:
Thanks in advance. It's really a great product, would be a shame to not use its full potential.
I agree
__________________
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
MarkWebber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1