quadcopters vs helis?

[sl4ppy]

After getting deep nto the hobby, Ill chime in with my findings..

A quad is a LOT less expensive to repair in a crash, IMHO.

On something like DJi 450, arms are about $4 each and you will almost never break more than 1 in even the hardest crashes.. A completely new set of 4 arms and frame is about $30.

So really the only repair is a new prop here and there unless you plan on tumbling to the ground from 500+ feet on a regular basis.

On the safety from, quads are much, MUCH safer with regards to getting hit with the prop versus blades. On a quad you can stop the motor from spinning with VERY little force from your bare finger. On my TBS quad motors, I can halt a motor simply by barely touching the spinner top. Yes, the blades will cut you at full speed, but unlike a heli, the motor stops instantly and it does NOT continue to spin even if full power is applied. Quads are also not geared so the energy in the blade that hits you is orders of magnitude less.

I once reached out and grabbed my F550 as the GPS started carrying it away uncontrollably. I dashed over and thrust my hand between 2 blades to grab an arm.. Yes I cut the back of my hand a bit, but it was nowhere close to even requiring stitches. A couple of band-aids and I was good to go. Try that with a heli. NO thanks.

[Tukmol]

Hi! Are quads a lot easier to fly in FPV than a heli with SL?

[cloudwalker]

Yes a quad is much much easier to fpv than a heli.

I fly a trex 500 fbl (vbar) in fpv mode, yes it is really difficult but i find it very nice to fly. I find them a lot more agile, more reliable than a quad and just a lot of fun but im a very competant 3D pilot as well. So flying a 3d heli in fpv mode is quite easy for me.

Quads are great for low level flight and playing around with trees. A fraction of the price to build and repair. Go the quad, oh and planks are boring.

[Tukmol]

Originally Posted by cloudwalker

Yes a quad is much much easier to fpv than a heli.

I fly a trex 500 fbl (vbar) in fpv mode, yes it is really difficult but i find it very nice to fly. I find them a lot more agile, more reliable than a quad and just a lot of fun but im a very competant 3D pilot as well. So flying a 3d heli in fpv mode is quite easy for me.

Quads are great for low level flight and playing around with trees. A fraction of the price to build and repair. Go the quad, oh and planks are boring.

I see. So if i want to just relax and watch the view realtime in fpv, quad is better?
Im asking this bec i already have helis and know how to fly. Can a quad fly in very high altitude like helis? High
Enough not to see.

[jlharv]

Originally Posted by Tukmol

I see. So if i want to just relax and watch the view realtime in fpv, quad is better?
Im asking this bec i already have helis and know how to fly. Can a quad fly in very high altitude like helis? High
Enough not to see.

True, the quad is good for taking it easy and just enjoying the view. But the heli is going to be faster and more maneuverable. But also less relaxing. With the quad, if you have GPS, you can just let go of the right stick and it will self level and hold a GPS position until you are ready to go again. But with the latest round of FBL controllers the gap is narrowing. Self leveling is already here and I think even one of them does have GPS position hold as well.

As far as height goes, they can all go just as high. There are plenty of videos of guys going up beyond the clouds. Which on one hand seems pretty cool, but on the other hand, imagine one of your loved ones on a plane, and sucking a quad or heli into an engine. I also think it is illegal to fly above certain altitudes or out of line of site. I don't think a couple minutes of fun would be worth the risks involved.

[Goldenhour]

Looks like you were about 800 feet off the ground.

What I'm wondering is how do you fly inverted with fixed pitch blades?

[whiplashWho]

Originally Posted by Goldenhour

Looks like you were about 800 feet off the ground.

What I'm wondering is how do you fly inverted with fixed pitch blades?

You don't fly inverted with fixed props. You fall inverted with fixed pitch props.

[DebianDog]

Originally Posted by whiplashWho

You don't fly inverted with fixed props. You fall inverted with fixed pitch props.

Yep got to be fast!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OiTRU_WVVc[/ame]

[R_Lefebvre]

Originally Posted by MattFL

In general what I observe is that these little helis are not designed or intended to be stable fpv platforms, so trying to stabilize them is an uphill battle. They are designed to be agile for 3D, and as a side effect they are inherently unstable. The quads seem to be intended for stability from the start which has got to be a great advantage for FPV and AP.

That's really not a true statement at all.

Helis, even the nastiest 3D heli, is far FAR more stable than any multirotor. Until you add stabilizing electronics, that is.

Here's the thing. Helicopters with flybars are controllable without assistance. They resist exterior forces fairly well. Even a flybarless heli is flyable by a REALLY good pilot, with no FBL controller. They are almost aerodynamically stable.

Multirotors by comparison are completely aerodynamically unstable, and are 100% unflyable without a controller. Thus, people started building controllers so we could fly them.

Now, FBL controllers exist also, and these help stabilize helis, but their primary mission is acrobatics, so they are designed to make the helis highly manoeverable, not stable. People don't buy FBL helis to spend all day hovering. They buy them for 3D, and the controllers are designed accordingly.

However, multirotors are also used by a lot of newbies who have never flown a heli. Many people are scared of helis and would never fly one, but they want a VTOL aircraft. They are attracted to the simplicity of multirotors. So they buy one, but they can't hover it with just 3D gyros. So, most multi-rotor controllers also include accelerometers, so that they can self-level. THAT is why most people thing MR's are more stable. It's only because they have evolved to be that way, while heli controllers have evolved for 3D.

But it doesn't have to be that way. There are controllers available that make helis very very stable. Arducopter for example. There's also the DJI systems, and others.

I fly both Multirotors, and Helicopters on Arducopter. IMO, there's no contest. Helicopters flown by the exact same controller, are far, more stable than a multirotor. Check out this video. You simply can't fly a quadcopter in wind like this:

[satgod]

I have been flying helis since the early 80's and got into fpv about 2 months ago, with a quad.

Heli's are ALOT more expesive to repair
Flight time on a heli is alot more limited (5-8 minutes on an electric) where as my quad can give me 25-30 minutes
quads are way more stable. With a naza and gps you can let go of the sticks and it will sit there. Now that naza has released the heli version of their controller this is coming more true for the heli's as well but in all a quad is just easier
Quads ussually have the ability to carry more payload without looking like something from a sci-fi reject show

I love my heli's but unless your going to do it with Gas power (real gas not nitro) so you get those 40-60 minute flights and you have the latest gps system for it I would recommend it

I can flip a switch and my quad comes back on its own. and if I loose signal it comes back on its own. I dont loose a 1500.00 craft

[R_Lefebvre]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Quads are NOT more stable than a helicopter. Not even close. Quads cannot carry more than a helicopter. Not even close. And I sure can't get 25+ minutes out of my quad! What's your secret?!

My helicopter will stop if I release the sticks. And it will come back on it's own if I lose the signal.

You are comparing a quadcopter with an advanced flight controller on it, to a helicopter without one even though they are available.

A 450 Heli running a fully automatic waypoint mission. Try that in your Naza quad:

[Tukmol]

Hi! Are helis with align aps gyro as stable as quadcopters?

[stevec]

There is no reason why a heli will not be as stable as a quad with auto stabilisation on both.

Infact once you make the effectively fly-by-wire then they could theoretically "feel" the same once tuned the way you want.

Plus you get the added things like speed and the more natural tail feel from having a proper yaw control.

If you put semi symmetrical blades on a helicopter it will be able to carry lots of weight. People think the because Helis will 3d that is all they can do.
Turn the head speed down, get some nice big blades on it and you have a great heavy lift platform.

It will be interesting to see if any full size quads come about in the near future that will be the proof I'd like to see. They were abandoned in the 50's because they were uncontrollable, we now have the tech to stabilise them so if they are efficient as people think we will start seeing them being used in full size applications.

I think the lack of motor redundancy and the fact they won't glide under any circumstances may prevent this but I am sure some of the eggheads at DARPA and the like are looking into it.

Helis for me... I have a quad and it is a bit like a fp heli in feel,much easier to fly but once you can fly a heli then you can pretty much fly anything.

I wouldn't fancy trying to fly a 3d set up heli in first person though, I'd want it tamed down a bit!

/Steve


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[jolyboy]

Steve, you should try fpv a 3d heli, its not as hard as you'd initially think (you'd love it ). Plus if you get into trouble you can punch out/change direction very quickly. It does help to tame it down when learning, but after a while its actually easier to unleash the 3d capability because you have much more capability from the machine.

For example: Is it easier to ride a bike with training wheels or without training wheels? That depends on the rider, but eventually their skill will reach a level where it is better to throw away the training wheels. But if they are never forced to progress, they will find themselves at the age of 35 riding to work on a tricycle.

IMO the same thing goes with self level - learn to NOT use it and you'll unlock a whole new flying experience

[R_Lefebvre]

You bring up a good point. One of the modes I love on Arducopter is nick-named "Acro with training wheels". It's semi-stabilitized. When you release the stick, it does not spring back to level automatically. It slowly self-stabilizes, and the rate is variable, so you can back it off as you get more proficient. Pretty cool. Ease into it.

[jolyboy]

Thats awesome. What happens when variable pitch quads are more widely used? Will they be better than helis?

[stevec]

I think that quads will always feel more robotic than Helicopters.

A bit like the flite test video where they say that tricopters give nicer results than quads.

Variable pitch quads will be interesting and give a more helicopter like experience though, I suppose it depends on the controller.

The current controllers could make an all out 3d heli feel like a cp heli so who knows how the programmers will make them feel.
With the quad it is down to the stabilisation system rather than physics.

The same can be said for modern fbl helicopters the feel is all done through the setup of the flybarless system and programming. The latest helicommand among others will self level if you let go of the sticks much like a co axial.

It is an exciting time to be in this hobby.

/Steve

[spinzer]

Here's a full size multicopter for those who haven't seen it:
http://www.e-volo.com/

The thing with full size is not that it won't work, it will work well, it's the batteries that is limiting the experience.

[hga77]

450 helicopter stretched to 480, fully loaded with fpv gear... Even a tilting camera with three angles!

Doing 12 minutes (windy on this day):

Trex/Storm/Tarot 480 FPV - 12 minute garden hovering (12 min 42 sec)

Same heli doing 23 minutes:

480 FPV - 23 minute garden hovering (23 min 22 sec)

Don't tell me a heli can only do ~8 minutes max fpv flying... Nonsense!

[Tukmol]

Now that I have a quadcopter, I lost interest in heli fpv. Quads are so much easier to fly and safer. Being able to video people or animals without worrying of killing them is enough reason for me to pick Quad.

Helis are too dangerous for low or close fpv videos and if I want long range, ill buy a plane. Helis are 3rd choice for me... but for LOS flying, helis are the BEST lol