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Old 02-20-2014, 07:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Removing Feathering shaft on 150 with heat?

Guys,

I need to get the screws out of my F/shaft, but even with good quality 1.3 mm and 1.27mm hex drivers I'm still getting screw head stripping. The scews on mine are stupidly tight.

Some have recommended using a soldering iron to heat the screws and soften the threadlock.

I'll need to give the heat meathod a go, but for how long should I heat the screw head in order to soften the threadlock? Should I wet the tip a bit to aid heat transfer? I don't want to damage the dampers as I have no spares at present.

Thanks!!

MB
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Removing Feathering shaft on 150 with heat?

I tried heat with no luck in the end had to drill out the screw head which was a right pain! Make sure you flush the bearings out afterwards.
The amount of locktight on the feathering shaft bolts was unreal!
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I use a number 6 torxs driver not sure if thats spelled rite anyeay on my Allen heads and seems to do the trick pretty much every time I have had one or 2 that wouldn't come lose. Also if you can get one side out take a pair of small side cutters and with a little pressure you can bit dow n on it and remove it
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey guys, o.k. thanks for that!! I'll try a number 6 torx on it then. I hope I don't have to drill it out!! I might buy some MIP tools and try those with it, but they are expensive, and I'm sick of my 150 woes, Align really dropped the ball big time quality wise with the 150 IMO, the number of out the box issues I've had with mine is silly.

Was thinking of getting a 450L in the spring, not so keen on that Idea now though.

Cheers
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Having calmed down now after crashing my 150 yesterday due to having to run cyclic gain to way too low (got bad head wobble at abouve 10 O'Clock), I've ordered two MIP 1.3 mm Hex drivers and the lynx dampers. I hope that sorts this little begger out. If not, it might end up getting the hammer and flames treatment like in that "how to fix all your 150 issus" video. LOL!
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Can't blame you. After crashing mine on my 4th flight with a popped up swash bearing on my idle up, I want to throw this darn thing. Just like you...I tried taking out the feathering shaft and they won't budge until they stripped. I then drilled the main head block just to cut the FS in half and save those arms. But when that was done...the bearings on one of the blade holders came out and the balls were out from their ring race. Since I got the V1, I can't take out the pins on the tail motor to change the bent tail boom. I need to cut the wire and re-solder.

This T-150 really gonna test your patience.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yup!! I tried using a #6 Torx driver while I'm waiting on the MIP drivers arriving. Still won't budge, insead the hex drive bit on my Align 1.3mm driver started slipping in the Alu handle.

I can see the head breaking off rather than breaking loose when I try to use the MIP drivers. I'd settle for that TBH.

So far, I only own two Align Helis, A 250 PRO DFC and a 150 DFC, and both have been all work and no play so far, though the 250 was second hand, so I'm dealing with the previous owners shoddy handy work mostly on that. I'll never buy an second hand heli again!!

I was just kidding about the hammer and flames, that was a total waste
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If the good quality drivers don't work (and they may not--if you've rounded it out real well with other drivers, no driver can save you at all) there's always the good old cutting a slit in the fastener head and using a flat-head to try and get it out approach.

Additionally, if the T6 driver you were using worked and spun the Align bit in the other driver, that tells me you got a good bite there. Try another T6 driver on the other side as well perhaps?
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well I can confirm I am in the same situation the hardware is impossible to get out and as usual Align hardware is butter soft got to love it. Tried a T6 hex, 1.3 driver and the screws stripped whatever lock tight was used is overkill, I decided to order two new grips, Lynx feathering shafts and the main section. Since itís down I put the new stiffer Align frame on once its altogether I will fly it and then its off classifieds or not we will see. Aggravating little heli I should have waited for the V2 I know better when it comes to Align.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Or purchase a new head and grips. Then cut the old and save as spares.


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Old 02-21-2014, 07:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esmoglo View Post
Aggravating little heli I should have waited for the V2 I know better when it comes to Align.
Same here. Expensive lesson to learn.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miracle Boy View Post
Yup!! I tried using a #6 Torx driver while I'm waiting on the MIP drivers arriving. Still won't budge, insead the hex drive bit on my Align 1.3mm driver started slipping in the Alu handle.

I can see the head breaking off rather than breaking loose when I try to use the MIP drivers. I'd settle for that TBH.

So far, I only own two Align Helis, A 250 PRO DFC and a 150 DFC, and both have been all work and no play so far, though the 250 was second hand, so I'm dealing with the previous owners shoddy handy work mostly on that. I'll never buy an second hand heli again!!

I was just kidding about the hammer and flames, that was a total waste
I had slipping with my align 1.3mm driver, but I fixed it. Take pliers, and pull out the driver tip, and put in some red Loctite, and press it back in. Mines doesn't even come close to slipping anymore. To take off the 150's feathering shaft, you must use two good screwdrivers. Whether they are MIPs or two align silver tipped ones. I got mines off on my first try using a MIP in one hand and an align in the other. The tolerances with the included driver are absolutely terrible.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I had slipping with my align 1.3mm driver, but I fixed it. Take pliers, and pull out the driver tip, and put in some red Loctite, and press it back in. Mines doesn't even come close to slipping anymore. To take off the 150's feathering shaft, you must use two good screwdrivers. Whether they are MIPs or two align silver tipped ones. I got mines off on my first try using a MIP in one hand and an align in the other. The tolerances with the included driver are absolutely terrible.

Yup!! I wish I'd waited for the v2 as well. I'll maybe try some red locktite on the Align tool, but I also have some retaining compound, so I might try that instead. No matter what, I'm not doing anything that will damage the head and grips, I've spent enough on this bloody thing already.

My MIP drivers will come on Monday, so I'll see how I get on with it then. I don't think the screw heads are all that rounded out, not yet anyway.

I've read that in some cases Align didn't even use thread lock, that CA was used instead. That could be the case with mine.

I just can't believe how tight the screws are, it's just unreal. I'm surprised that one of the heads hasn't broken off yet.

I have absolutely no slop in my grips at all. I think that's because the screws have been torqued up so tightly that it's taken up the play that other people have seen with the head on their heli.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miracle Boy View Post
I've read that in some cases Align didn't even use thread lock, that CA was used instead. That could be the case with mine.
First batch 150
yes maybe could be CA my M motor M gear Jesus Bolt were installed with a clear adhesive. Looked like CA.
But
CA is a low temp glue and will break down with heat just like T43 and will also breakdown with CA de bonder but found with a lot of pressure and slow twist was able to remove all my bolts and install with
QuickStix 248 is blue same as 220
Loctite 248 Semi Solid Stick Medium Strength Blue Threadlocker
but
Have not pulled my feathering shaft. I think when I do I will use CA debonder
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipweed View Post
First batch 150
yes maybe could be CA my M motor M gear Jesus Bolt were installed with a clear adhesive. Looked like CA.
But
CA is a low temp glue and will break down with heat just like T43 and will also breakdown with CA de bonder but found with a lot of pressure and slow twist was able to remove all my bolts and install with
QuickStix 248 is blue same as 220
Loctite 248 Semi Solid Stick Medium Strength Blue Threadlocker
but
Have not pulled my feathering shaft. I think when I do I will use CA debonder
Mine had threadlock on the Jesus bolt and M Motor screws, But maybe they used CA on the feathering shaft. I might try a little heat on it then, see if that helps!!

I've been using Quickstix 248 on all my screws into alloy for over a year now and I've hardly used any of it, great stuff and screws come out easy enough when required. It's a bit thick for tiny screws like the 130X tail shaft for the grips, but I just apply it with a tooth pick, works great.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I bought the newer version and all the screws required heat to remove. Very much a pain Align
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I've been pretty impressed with how the heli is flying, but I did manage to put it in today on the head. I'm not even sure if it bent the spindle, but I decided to change it out anyways and I think I see where you guys are coming from. I knew from reading all the posts that the screws are pretty soft, so I was planning to try it with the tools I have and go real light. Well, what I found was that one of the screws is actually rounded off from the start. It's like they torqued down on it too hard at the factory and just shipped it that way. I can get my 1.3mm driver into one side and it grabs. Put the same driver in the other side and it turns free inside the head of the screw. I can visibly see that the corners are rounded off. So it might not be that we're stripping them when we're taking them out, but rather they are already stripped to begin with. I tried getting it out with all of the other flathead, phillips and torx bits I have to no avail. As a last resort I tried to grind into it with my Dremel and that didn't work out so well either.

The heli is flying so great that I guess I'm willing to chunk down some more coin to get another head and grips, but I'll definitely be going with the Lynx feathering shafts and ultra dampeners. Once I get them I'll probably drill out the old ones and see if I can at least salvage the grips and the bearings.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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One of the screw heads was deffo rounded out at the factory on mine. They just torqued is down so hard that it chewed the head on the bit they were using.

My MIP tools will come today, so later we will see..........Failure = LOL!!!
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Red face Bring on the Heat

There is no question heat breaks down T43 and CA. The more heat the better.
But
You will have to remove the DFC rotor grip arms. Then there is almost no limit how much you can heat you can apply to the feathering shaft screw.
Now
You do lose the Align head dampers but that is a small price to pay for a stuck feathering shaft screw.
If it were me I would pre head the whole head assembly.
Put the head in a vise or clamp it in place (taped up vise grip)
Take a soldering iron to one screw and heat the sh#$t out of the button head screw.
While still smoken press and rotate the screw while tapping with hammer or some sort of mallet (impact wrench).
This will work but if failure occurs.
Next
Drill the sucker
On re assemble you only need to grease pack the bearings (lithium grease)
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipweed View Post
There is no question heat breaks down T43 and CA. The more heat the better.
But
You will have to remove the DFC rotor grip arms. Then there is almost no limit how much you can heat you can apply to the feathering shaft screw.
Now
You do lose the Align head dampers but that is a small price to pay for a stuck feathering shaft screw.
If it were me I would pre head the whole head assembly.
Put the head in a vise or clamp it in place (taped up vise grip)
Take a soldering iron to one screw and heat the sh#$t out of the button head screw.
While still smoken press and rotate the screw while tapping with hammer or some sort of mallet (impact wrench).
This will work but if failure occurs.
Next
Drill the sucker
On re assemble you only need to grease pack the bearings (lithium grease)
Well, my MIP 1.3mm tools have arrived at my work. they don't have any handles on them, they are just the hex drive type, but that's all Fast-Lad had in stock. I'll give it a go without heat first. Hopefully the MIP's will take them out, or break off a button head, either would do, and save me some money, I have some spare (stock) feathering shafts, bought those before Lynx brought one out.

People bash Blade a lot, but I've had a lot more trouble with Align models that with any of my Blade helis, and I have at least one of most of them. No quads though!!
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