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450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 06-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help me locate cause of vibration/wobble. 450L

Ok, so my heli has less than 20 flights on it. I didn't notice this bobble/vibe until I was doing some test hovers very close to me recently, so it's possible that it's always been here. Anyway, I was doing some tuning and I noticed this weekend that I had a fairly significant bobble. It presents itself in the form of shaking skids and slight vibration in the tail fin. It doesn't seem to affect performance.

I initially thought it was a vibe, so I started hunting. Took the main and tail blades and and did a test spool, sure enough there was a VERY bad vibe. I located it and remedied the issue. (torque tube had bent itself and was rubbing the inside of the boom)

After I fixed that issue I did another test spool. This time it was silky smooth. So, I charged up a pack and did a test hover thinking it would be locked in and my troubles gone. I was wrong. Not only is the bobble still there, it is unchanged. That makes me think its not coming from the tail at all.

Some things to note:

-Bobble most present at lower head speeds. (2700 is bad, 2900 is worse, 3200 and it seems to go away, or becomes too high frequency for the eye to catch)

-Never been in a crash, or tip over. Main and feathering shaft are original.

- Swash has some up/down play in the bearing.

- Blade grips have lateral play on the feathering shaft. Meaning if I grip them, I can move them both back and forth on a horizontal plane.

- Main gear seems to wobble a bit, but not sure that would make a difference.


Anyway, I'd like to get this thing flying well so I'm hoping you guys can assist me. Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Mine does the same thing and I can get rid of it by just adding a couple percent to the head speed and it goes away. I've learned to deal with it on the Dominator.

My low headspeed is around 50 but found the 52 percent throttle is the sweet spot.

My medium headspeed around 70 percent is bad but at 73 it's vib free and flys awesome.

My high headspeed is fine at 90 no vibe whatsoever.

I'm assuming it's a esc or the stock motor as I can get rid of it by simply adding a couple clicks to the throttle curve. I hope this helps.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Badhelipilot View Post
Mine does the same thing and I can get rid of it by just adding a couple percent to the head speed and it goes away. I've learned to deal with it on the Dominator.

My low headspeed is around 50 but found the 52 percent throttle is the sweet spot.

My medium headspeed around 70 percent is bad but at 73 it's vib free and flys awesome.

My high headspeed is fine at 90 no vibe whatsoever.

I'm assuming it's a esc or the stock motor as I can get rid of it by simply adding a couple clicks to the throttle curve. I hope this helps.

Interesting, I'll have to try that. Do you have the lateral play in the blade grips?
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:14 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Help me locate cause of vibration/wobble. 450L

This may sound stupid, but have you checked/replaced the dampeners?


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Old 06-06-2014, 11:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This may sound stupid, but have you checked/replaced the dampeners?


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I took the head apart and inspected everything. Dampers seemed to be just fine. Keep in mind it just now has 11 flights on it including the 3 test hovers I've done since discovering the issue. I'd be shocked if they dampers wore out that fast. With that said, they are extremely hard. Not sure how effective they really are.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Check this out....

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=624846
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Help me locate cause of vibration/wobble. 450L

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlvaSpeed View Post

That makes complete sense! I'm so glad you shared that Alva!


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Old 06-06-2014, 09:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah I've been an active participant in that thread. My wobble has remained even after putting 3 bearings on the TT. My heli is now absolutely vibration free, yet the wobble remains.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Help me locate cause of vibration/wobble. 450L

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavisBladeWorks View Post
Yeah I've been an active participant in that thread. My wobble has remained even after putting 3 bearings on the TT. My heli is now absolutely vibration free, yet the wobble remains.

I'm running out of suggestions....


Are u able to hold the main gear and rotate the head without the main gear moving?


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Old 06-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Can you post some vids ? Mine is wobble too and I have lower my head gain to the lowest
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by legend_217 View Post
Can you post some vids ? Mine is wobble too and I have lower my head gain to the lowest
My wobble is gone. Fixed it today. I changed out the main shaft and feathering shaft. Main was obviously not straight, despite never being in a crash. I'd checked your shafts.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlvaSpeed View Post
Thx AlvaSpeed I this this is an excellent idea as I simply increased the head speed to get tie of this problem.

I will add another set of bearings and report my findings.

BTW how did u notice the scratches inside the tt?
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thx AlvaSpeed I this this is an excellent idea as I simply increased the head speed to get tie of this problem.

I will add another set of bearings and report my findings.

BTW how did u notice the scratches inside the tt?
I noticed them when taking the TT out.

The bearings do help tremendously. I use 3 now as well.
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm going to be trying this also. Got two extra bearings on the way. So I should have three total.

I'm not having two many vibrations actually. But it's a bit surprising given the TT is not perfectly straight. That being the case, I feel adding the extra bearings will help and hopefully remove potential problems.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My 450L 6S has devopled a major vibration and Ive tried to track it down with no luck.

The heli has had a maxium 30 flights no crashes or hard landings . The Vbar log has been giving me extreme vibration warnings for the whole flights. Ive been tracking it down changed shafts ,bearings,blades balanced today i changed the motor. And everything is the same.

If i remove main and tail case there are no vibes it runs smooth . As soon as the tail case and tail blades on i get massive vibes .. tried new blades balanced and all weigh the same . I have noticed the torque tube has a slight bend and i have added extra torque tube bearing just for testing but the vibration is still there.
The only things i havent changed it the the torque tube tail case and boom..

The vibrations are that bad it will shake its self off the table if i dont hold it down tight . If i put my fingers on the boom the vibration in the middle of the tail boom is really bad.

Vibes register 2500+ in the Vbar ...

Any got any idea because im getting really pi$$ed with it at the moment seeing its brand new

Anthony
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by miskin View Post
My 450L 6S has devopled a major vibration and Ive tried to track it down with no luck.

The heli has had a maxium 30 flights no crashes or hard landings . The Vbar log has been giving me extreme vibration warnings for the whole flights. Ive been tracking it down changed shafts ,bearings,blades balanced today i changed the motor. And everything is the same.

If i remove main and tail case there are no vibes it runs smooth . As soon as the tail case and tail blades on i get massive vibes .. tried new blades balanced and all weigh the same . I have noticed the torque tube has a slight bend and i have added extra torque tube bearing just for testing but the vibration is still there.
The only things i havent changed it the the torque tube tail case and boom..

The vibrations are that bad it will shake its self off the table if i dont hold it down tight . If i put my fingers on the boom the vibration in the middle of the tail boom is really bad.

Vibes register 2500+ in the Vbar ...

Any got any idea because im getting really pi$$ed with it at the moment seeing its brand new

Anthony

Anthony, try adding a third bearing but before you do make sure your TT is straight. It the torque shaft isn't straight you will always get vibes, regardless of how many bearings you have.

Also, this is important, make sure you're not jamming the boom into the tail case too hard. The gear that the TT keys into in the front of the heli doesn't seem to be very true, so it wobbles a bit. Having the TT jammed into that gear as far as it will go seems to make this worse, causing more vibes.

To prevent this I install the boom and TT as far as they will go, and then I pull both out about 1/8 of an inch or so. This way the TT is still engaging more than enough, but it's not being sandwiched in so hard. This alone reduced my vibes a fair amount.




After you've flushed out the vibes by installing more TT bearings and adjusting the boom/TT, I highly recommend shimming the play out of the blade grips. I'm going to guess you have a fair amount of play, because every 450L I've seen has it. I get this play out by installing Lynx 130x main shaft shims. I put the shims between the blade grips and stock silver shims in the head.



You can get rid of the vibes I promise. Just takes a little patience. Pull your TT and inspect it. Does it have a shiny spot where it's been rubbing the inside of the boom?
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi i cant see any signs if wear on the torque tube . I have a new boom , torque tube + bearings , shafts and gears on the way.

It vibrates really bad on the bench which messes around with the Vbar. Also hurts your hand if you hold onto the boom.

Where would you position the 3 bearings along the torque tube?

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Old 12-08-2014, 03:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Guys I'm running my 450L 6S Dominator at 2800 Headspeed. It does not seem to have any tail vibrations, no wagging also... its Sold dead center. But some how the body is moving on the alerions quite fast is if there is some vibration. it is more visible on the skids(Wind of like wooble). cant see it going on the elevator tho.

Tried changing the gains on the gyro but no differance.

Any guess what might be causing it & how can i check it or lose it?

I'm some how doubting the Main shaft so have ordered all the 3 shatfs to try them out... Main Shaft, Tail shaft & Feathering shaft. Hope this does the magic. any other suggestions.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Guys I'm running my 450L 6S Dominator at 2800 Headspeed. It does not seem to have any tail vibrations, no wagging also... its Sold dead center. But some how the body is moving on the alerions quite fast is if there is some vibration. it is more visible on the skids(Wind of like wooble). cant see it going on the elevator tho.

Tried changing the gains on the gyro but no differance.

Any guess what might be causing it & how can i check it or lose it?

I'm some how doubting the Main shaft so have ordered all the 3 shatfs to try them out... Main Shaft, Tail shaft & Feathering shaft. Hope this does the magic. any other suggestions.
Check your TT, and your main shaft. The main shaft is *extremely* easily bent, and the TT is prone to vibes without an extre bearing or two also.

Like you I didn't see "vibes," I saw my skids wobble like yours. Check those 2 things first.
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Old 12-08-2014, 04:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Mine have minor when i sppoled it up and concentrated on my
Tail since i have double bearing on my TT I found this micro to mini play on my tail pitch slider
Watch the video to see what i have found. I dont know how tight my bushing should be but i tighten it up as far as i can...sorry for the video quality.
Pitch slider bushing play on 450l (0 min 34 sec)
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