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500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


View Poll Results: Should you ground the frame?
Yes, its worth it to avoid glitches 38 33.04%
No, too much chance of shorting something out 39 33.91%
Not sure 38 33.04%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-25-2008, 09:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I was going down a path for a while that said get the entire helicopter at the same potential and have it be the negative of the battery. This would be the safest configuration from a EMI point of view IMHO. I'm willing to back off a bit to avoid making it too easy to burn up hardware.

Rick
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
 

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Did anyone test to see if the belt rubbing on the boom block stop, was the direct cause of the static?
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chichiuno View Post
Did anyone test to see if the belt rubbing on the boom block stop, was the direct cause of the static?
from what i've seen there are 2 producers of static on the 500. The 1st is the nylon main gear and the 2nd is the plastic tail blades spinning causes the positive charge to jump to the boom then ultimately to the Rx or Gyro.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:56 PM   #24 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erniefritz View Post
from what i've seen there are 2 producers of static on the 500. The 1st is the nylon main gear and the 2nd is the plastic tail blades spinning causes the positive charge to jump to the boom then ultimately to the Rx or Gyro.
You forgot the main blades. Are you saying the boomblock belt rubbing is not a producer?
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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ESD generator list:

1) Boom/belt acting as Van de Graaf
2) Boom block rubbing belt
3) Main Blades
4) Tail Blades
5) Nylon gears

Rick
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
ESD generator list:

1) Boom/belt acting as Van de Graaf
2) Boom block rubbing belt
3) Main Blades
4) Tail Blades
5) Nylon gears

Rick
Hi Rick,

Thanks for your input.

I guess this is why Aberdeen could never could duplicate static issues in the boom area, as when he first built his 500 kit in mid Jan, he first channeled the boom block stop. Along with his CF frame grounding, everything else became a "non issue".

Over on the Trextuning forum, Aberdeen suggested to line the bottom side and sides of the Spektrum recievers with some 3m copper shielding tape.and for best results ground the copper shield tape. Also, instead of running the recievers antennas up against the frame, bend them outwards, away from the frames.
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Sounds like more work than just grounding the boom and pulley to me....

Look the entire heli is going to build up static just flying through the air! What you dont want is portions of the heli to be able to build up a different potential than another area thus allowing one area to ARC to another area. Tieing the boom "system" to the frame achives that and as been clearly show and demonstrated, it solves the glitch and lockout issues. Copper plates around the RX and such is just adding complexity and way too many variables on how the user does this AND if it even works! How do you stop an arc to a servo wire with a plate around the RX? We know the boom and pulley grounding works. KISS I always say.....

Bob
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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With 42 votes in, all three answers are in the 3X % range with the NOs slightly ahead. LOL. Closest poll I've seen in a while.

Rick
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
 

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that's it. this is just poll. no science answer.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I have the frame grounded to the boom and the two pulleys, 25 flights no problem. A friend of mine only grounded the tail pulley boom and frame, so far 10 flights no problem. We both do not use any silicone spray. We both have the metal cnc tail and we made sure they were conductive.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulhalla12 View Post
that's it. this is just poll. no science answer.
Well, I'd like to think many of us are applying real science to come up with the best answer.

Rick
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:25 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I can confirm you're asking for trouble grounding the esc to the frame.
I had actually solved my twitching by swapping out the Align speedo for a Jazz, but went ahead and did all the fixes suggested here just in case.
Last night I didn't have one of my FP evo's plugged all the way into the adaptor cable, and the exposed prongs were caught on the tray. I was busy getting the tail back together and smelled smoke. Yep, two more go^8da$# mother#**()ing lipos toasted. Puffed like Lewinski's cheeks at an all night suck fest.
Remembering this thread, and since the packs were ruined anyway, I pulled the ground off and intentionally touched both pos/neg prongs to the frame. Got nothing. Nada, zip zilch zero.
Yeah I know. Not exactly scientific. But proof enough for me.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:58 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default my .02 cents.

Why then are all modern aircraft grounded with all their components? They also cost more and carry real passengers. ??? I vote for grounding every part to the neg of the battery.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrouspete View Post
Why then are all modern aircraft grounded with all their components? They also cost more and carry real passengers. ??? I vote for grounding every part to the neg of the battery.
Agreed.... but unlike real aircraft you don't have Joe user wiring up a heli and allowing wires to chaff to the frame and thus short. I say YES do the neg side battery grounding but if you do make sure your wiring is CLEAN! We have already heard of people that had a wire chaff to the frame and blow all the radio gear!
But YES even our automobiles are neg frame ground! Been a common practice for YEARS.... Nothing wrong with it

However grounding the neg side of the battery does NOT solve the tail static problem.

Bob
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:38 AM   #35 (permalink)
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OK, got a solution so all can be happy.

IMO, you only need to do #1, but feel free to do #2 and #3.

The 1K ohm reisistor will allow grounding the ESC neg to the frame yet prevent shorting if your other wires touches the frame.

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Old 03-27-2008, 04:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireup View Post
OK, got a solution so all can be happy.

IMO, you only need to do #1, but feel free to do #2 and #3.

The 1K ohm reisistor will allow grounding the ESC neg to the frame yet prevent shorting if your other wires touches the frame.

You never cease to amaze me. Limit the current! Great solution!
I assume it can be small wattage resistor since minimal current will be flowing.
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:58 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I voted not sure. It is possible imo to shorten something out, but then you do want to protect your wires so they don't become exposed.
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:34 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kraaijer View Post
I voted not sure. It is possible imo to shorten something out, but then you do want to protect your wires so they don't become exposed.
Agreed, protect your wires but protecting all with the resister is fool proof.
Rick
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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So if the philosophy is to keep your entire heli at the same potential and make that potential be common to the negative on the battery, was is the max acceptable resistance from the negative on the battery to any metal part on the heli?

Lets say 2K ohm for instance, does that do it? Thats 1K for the current limiting resister and another 1K for connections via the frame/boom hardware. I'm going to shoot for way less, but does that solve the problem?

I think we are closing here on the soltion to the 100% static proof TREX 500, or any heli for that matter.
Rick
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireup View Post
OK, got a solution so all can be happy.

IMO, you only need to do #1, but feel free to do #2 and #3.

The 1K ohm reisistor will allow grounding the ESC neg to the frame yet prevent shorting if your other wires touches the frame.

First of all, I fully agree.

Secondly, it is quite "funny" that when the ESC to frame ground mod started to emerge, people were talking about how important it was to have "zero" ohms of resistance between the negative and the motor mount

Peter
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