What I have learned (so far) about electric R/C Helicopters

[edwart]

Great read. I just learned how to fly mine straight and back without hitting the ground or accident my going so high I couldn't see it. Now I am practicing going around in circles. I swear I flew it front AMD backwards a thousand times to get it right. I've went through 5 quads in a month because I jumped right into it and destroyed them.

[toadiscoil]

Thanks for sharing. Glad you enjoyed the long read. Practice makes perfect as you have now seen by yourself.

Talking about practice I highly recommend the training I mention on the post, ArchmageAU's one.

I wish you the best and keep having fun!

Originally Posted by edwart

Great read. I just learned how to fly mine straight and back without hitting the ground or accident my going so high I couldn't see it. Now I am practicing going around in circles. I swear I flew it front AMD backwards a thousand times to get it right. I've went through 5 quads in a month because I jumped right into it and destroyed them.

[Not_Here]

WOW,
I had no idea... I just stumbled on to this thread. Bookmarked and subscribed for sure. I will be referring others to this thread. What a great reference for the total beginner as well as those who may just be transitioning to the intermediate level but still have some gaps.
It may be overwhelming if you've only been into helis for a week, but you would still come away with a head full of knowledge, Then come back in a month or two and a whole new set of information would register and encourage the new person to continue learning.
Well done sir! Awesome to have Jasmine's youtube channel linked in here as well, That was a good find for me. You see every level can benefit from this.

[mgfiest]

Tip 3 - Learn how to build...

Should really be Tip 1... lol

After what I thought was a minor crash... I have had to take my heli apart from aft to stern ... to find out what was really wrong with it... knowing how to put it back correctly was my biggest learning curve... if you don't put it in correctly.. guess what.. you have to take it all apart AGAIN...

[Jasmine2501]

Originally Posted by mgfiest

Tip 3 - Learn how to build...

Should really be Tip 1... lol

After what I thought was a minor crash... I have had to take my heli apart from aft to stern ... to find out what was really wrong with it... knowing how to put it back correctly was my biggest learning curve... if you don't put it in correctly.. guess what.. you have to take it all apart AGAIN...

Hehe, yeah, in the helicopter world, buying RTF only saves you from the first crash. I kinda like that because sometimes I go a long time without crashing. Of course, now I jinxed that...

[toadiscoil]

Thank you for the kind words. I am working on some changes and additions as suggested by a couple of buddy pilots which will be credited for their input. I hope to have it up soon, probably next week at most hopefully.

I have to say ArchmageAU is awesome, he has taught me so much and my journey is largely based on his training. I wanted to give something back since I have been growing very passionate about this hobby, and hopefully one day I will get to fly the way I keep imagining in my head =)

Originally Posted by Not_Here

WOW,
I had no idea... I just stumbled on to this thread. Bookmarked and subscribed for sure. I will be referring others to this thread. What a great reference for the total beginner as well as those who may just be transitioning to the intermediate level but still have some gaps.
It may be overwhelming if you've only been into helis for a week, but you would still come away with a head full of knowledge, Then come back in a month or two and a whole new set of information would register and encourage the new person to continue learning.
Well done sir! Awesome to have Jasmine's youtube channel linked in here as well, That was a good find for me. You see every level can benefit from this.

[toadiscoil]

A lot of pilots say building is half the fun. I am more of just a pilot myself (well, aspiring pilot still hehe) than a builder. I do like to find out what's wrong and install upgrades and such but I don't like crashing. Yes I have learned a lot also by taking it apart and setting it up from scratch and I liked it but I would rather be flying. If I had the money I would buddy up with a pro builder to have him do that work. Any new kits or major rebuilds I would do the minor things. I also don't have a lot of time, I struggle to find time to fly so if I get free time I would rather spend it flying than fixing.

But yes, the build portion is a whole subject by itself. That is also what has probably held me up the most. I have my 360 CFX crashed, my Goblin 380 waiting for electronics, and my 200 SRX and 230 S in flying conditions (completely assembled, rebuilt) but I cannot get them to fly properly. I believe I may have a bigger issue than the evident. But my time and money will go to fixing my bigger birds now that my build skills are such that I can repair them and have a better FBL that can correct minor issues instead of the Blade micros which correct themselves with "trim flights" but if there is any vibration will not do that job properly.

I think the hardest part is dealing with the minor things. Setting up a heli with brand new parts is actually not that difficult. Pay attention to detail, use Loctite, use the proper grease, manage your work space, follow instructions, be careful. Not much to it. Today swash levelers and digital pitch gauges ease up the setup, and also FBL units that help to correct or allow the user to correct minor mechanical imprecision. But finding out that one component that is causing issues, that is the hard part.

So lots and lots of time on the simulator. I am getting close to where I want to now but need to transfer those skills to IRL. Like ArchmageAU would suggest, don't get too far ahead on the sim versus IRL.

Originally Posted by mgfiest

Tip 3 - Learn how to build...

Should really be Tip 1... lol

After what I thought was a minor crash... I have had to take my heli apart from aft to stern ... to find out what was really wrong with it... knowing how to put it back correctly was my biggest learning curve... if you don't put it in correctly.. guess what.. you have to take it all apart AGAIN...

[toadiscoil]

Once you "get it" I think that building a new kit (have yet to do that, but I tore apart my BNF and rebuilt and setup with new replacement parts) is relatively easy and can lead to a good degree of success. Yes there are things that can go wrong that won't on an RTF but sometimes RTF units don't come perfect from factory and need tweaking. This actually presents a bigger issue since it is likely a newbie will promptly crash it due to a factory issue and then won't be able to fix it to fly properly. This happened to me and I have heard stories around the same lines.

Still RTF or BNF is still the best option to get started, and probably Blade due to their support which can even lead to full unit replacement.

Originally Posted by Jasmine2501

Hehe, yeah, in the helicopter world, buying RTF only saves you from the first crash. I kinda like that because sometimes I go a long time without crashing. Of course, now I jinxed that...

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by toadiscoil

Once you "get it" I think that building a new kit (have yet to do that, but I tore apart my BNF and rebuilt and setup with new replacement parts) is relatively easy and can lead to a good degree of success. Yes there are things that can go wrong that won't on an RTF but sometimes RTF units don't come perfect from factory and need tweaking. This actually presents a bigger issue since it is likely a newbie will promptly crash it due to a factory issue and then won't be able to fix it to fly properly. This happened to me and I have heard stories around the same lines.

Still RTF or BNF is still the best option to get started, and probably Blade due to their support which can even lead to full unit replacement.

I think you have it spot on.

When you start you really know nothing on how to fly or how to build. You need to pick one thing that you can start to work on.

If you start with building, you may have issues that you are unaware of, even if you successfully get off the ground first time.

Staring with BNF, at least the build part is mostly done (to an average level). The heli will usually work straight of of the box. If you have used the sim to build the basic reflexes and have your TX basically programmed, you can start to fly and get a feel for what is happening.

Somewhere along the line you will replace blades, grips, gears, servos, etc... as parts fail or hard landings take their toll. This way you start to learn to build (and to tweak) without having to know too much to get a model off the ground.

I started BNF. A 130X taught me heaps as I re-built it a number of times. It prepared me for a 500 which I needed to wire up to get flying and I did a near perfect job first time on that. Through the 130X I had learned all the mechanics I needed to ensure the heli was flight worthy.

This hobby requires a large amount of knowledge to do successfully. Make it easier by breaking it up into manageable chunks. Not having to learn to build to be able to fly is a big help in easing the learning curve.

[JWeber]

I think that most people start with a BNF or RTF model. Either from Blade or some Asian manufacturer. I started with Walkera. The nice thing is that when you get it out of the box, you can see how it's supposed to go together.

I highly recommend getting a heli mentor though. Nothing can replace a walking encyclopedia of heli knowledge. There is so much, that it just is immeasurable how much it can help.

[toadiscoil]

Good point my friend. Yes a mentor is a very good idea. Pilots are mostly willing to help knowing how difficult it is to ramp up. I wish I had more funds to accelerate my working flying skills as I would have more air time so I could provide more help. Keep watching over the new member introductions thread and I wish I had more to give. I keep trying to direct them to this thread hoping it will help somewhat.

I have to say ArchmageAU is an awesome guy and has helped me by commenting on all my dumb simple sim videos highlighting what I am doing wrong. His training and his attitude have helped me tremendously on this journey.

Originally Posted by JWeber

I think that most people start with a BNF or RTF model. Either from Blade or some Asian manufacturer. I started with Walkera. The nice thing is that when you get it out of the box, you can see how it's supposed to go together.

I highly recommend getting a heli mentor though. Nothing can replace a walking encyclopedia of heli knowledge. There is so much, that it just is immeasurable how much it can help.

[Not_Here]

I'll contribute by sharing (briefly ?! I hope) my similar experiences.
I started with smaller Asian heli's fixed pitch. TIny V911's I ended up with 5 of them and a huge box full of parts in no time at all. Right from the beginning I found the online community that was absolutely willing to share advice and help. Those first helis were simple enough that I was able to spend most of my time learning just how to move a heli through the air, some very basic orientations, and in a small way (pun intended) how to begin to replace broken parts - tail motors,skids,blade sets,,, Even some cf main shafts, and cnc swashes.. My first repair jobs were really basic, I was so nervous and unsure of just what was the right way to do anything. I most certainly did not want to break anything or do it wrong. I stuck with it through the aggravations, frustrations, and made progress. But, much like my journey in being a musician,(play guitar, bass, cello,) there is always the next level. Enter the 200SRX , I thought I had reached the top of the heap. I thought the head speed was insane, It had all these cool features like self level and some thing called flight modes. I also purchased my first Tx (DX6 gen2) and Phoenix. Now came a whole new learning curve. Let alone a whole new level of flying. I crashed. over and over. It was hard emotionally and really tested my patience. Every crash was some new thing to learn how to repair. I learned my first basic FBL (at least a concept of) configuration.
It was overwhelming at times.

However there was this one thing that kept me coming back for more. The flying! I even decided that I wanted to try a CP. I found a 5003D , NIB, local. I jumped at that, I went to pick it up and the Gentleman had me meet him at his club. Within 1 week I had my AMA and was a member of the Club. What an eye opener! Not just one Mentor, but a whole club of mentors, each with something to share/pass on, and show me. I did my first cp flight at that club on the 500. Holy Biscuits Batman! That was an experience and a half, coming from a 200srx. With guidance from HF& Finless Bob Vid's , and a couple mentors at the club, I learned how to set up and repair my 500. Honestly I was shocked every time after I would repair/rebuild after a crash that It would lift off and fly! This indeed was getting addicting. Heck I even bought a plank just because of the other club members giving me a change to buddy box on my first day out there, and getting me into that thrill. I soloed on my first flight with the Club Instructor, I had been really practicing like crazy on the sim and getting lessons there from here, and RCG.

I then needed a smaller heli, so next came the 180cfx. Again, a whole new learning curve. Now I had a newer basic FBL to learn about, and a really fast capable little heli that could fly well beyond my abilities. Much more learning about repair and set ups with this heli. Now a year later, countless crashes, hours in the sim, a couple thousand flights, and I know my 180 pretty darn well. I can build it from a pile of screws and parts without any diagrams. I can set it up and it will fly just like new, better even. I've learned Bling and cnc parts are not always the upgrade that I imagined them to be.

BNF heli's are what got me to this point. I would look at the BIG BOY helis and could not believe what works of art they are. I could only imagine how good their builders must be. Everything was so perfect and clean.

I took the plunge and decided it was time for my 1st Kit. I purchased and Oxy3 285.
Here I was again at a beginning. No more just take it out of the box. I had to learn all this new stuff. Servos, BEC's,ESC's, Soldering, Voltages, Amps, A real FBL, PID's, motors, kV's, Head speed calculators, connector choices, better tools, Yikes! I took me a couple months, reading 100's and 100's and 100's of posts, 100's of questions asked leading to more learning and discoveries.

Then came the build day. well two days really, no... three days, I worked every evening on it., How freeeking awesome of an experience to build this heli. I was nothing like my others. Everything was so well presented, fit, explained etc... that I made good progress. I did one thing at a time, did it well, then moved on. I got to the point of 1st power up.
I plugged it in, everything went smooth the appropriate lights on the Brain, ESC etc.. I went through my esc configuration via my laptop. awesome, next the Brain and it's set up wizard. I had configured my DX6 to use software tail gyro, so I could gain an additional channel for running the 3 set ups available in the fbl.
( I remember stopping at this point and thinking "wow look at how far I have come from that first 911 flying above my bed and crashing into the wall when the a/c come on)

I went for my first spool up, after four nights of work, I was really trying to get this right. everything so far was just as it should. I had everything set, triple checked... twice! I went for spool up. I moved the throttle up ( in normal mode linear TC) ((I had no concept of any of this 18 months ago)) and nothing... no motor start, no beeps, Damn! I lowered throttle, disconnected the pack. I was devastated. I know, maybe I was over reacting at that time, But seriously this was my first time ever doing something at this level. I assumed I had done something wrong. I was so disappointed. Here it was in my face, "I still didn't know what I was doing"... I was so wrapped up into this build and so excited, and now I had no idea. I remember posting my frustration on the Oxy thread, and commenting how I was stuck and giving up. I really was ready to quit.

HF to the rescue: three or four fellow HF members stepped up and got me to re-focus, encouraged me, and provided for me step by step process' so I could complete my set-up. I had got to the point of I was afraid ( because of my perceived lack of ability and knowledge) of having something wrong and frying my new and expensive electronics. They helped me, out of kindness, and a willingness to pass on this magic that is heli knowledge. In 24 hours I had my first spool ups, servo's tested and swash leveled flight modes and tc's set, Brain working perfectly... You know what my failure was? I didn't know there would be a slight pause ( different than the 180cfx) before the motor would spool up, or that I could change that in my esc programming for that matter. One little detail and I had assumed I was a failure and that I had broken this Oxy in some way before it was even off the bench. It was my own lack of confidence in my abilites,

Thanks to Helifreak, and the Top Caliber of help available here, I now have an awesome Oxy that flies so amazingly smooooth. I can't believe it (all over again) that it is this nice, and it's mine! Having a mentor is indeed the way to go, and Helifreak is full of them. Each and every person here has provided some bit of help in someway. I learn, and pass it on, and learn by doing that also.

If there is one thing that's sure - no matter how much I've learned I'm still just at the beginning, and anything I know now, I will pass on to the person who is looking for this or that bit of information that I know.

And, every single second of this has been worth it.. 100%

[toadiscoil]

Thank you for sharing Not_Here. I did not quote you just to avoid a huge post and I am on the phone. Good feedback for sure and good journey on the hobby one step at a time. I am also trying to share what little I know as I am very much a newbie myself. HeliFreak is awesome and led me to ArchmageAU and his excellent training which I try to keep following. Getting better on my slow upright piros every time. I am a bit stuck on my progress on real flying as money has caught up to me so I will have to take a pause unfortunately. Hopefully I will return with many sim hours under my belt and crash much less. I know there are some vast differences real versus simulated but getting the basics nailed down with the training and staying within my limits will allow me to fly better when I spool up again for real.

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by toadiscoil

Thank you for sharing Not_Here. I did not quote you just to avoid a huge post and I am on the phone. Good feedback for sure and good journey on the hobby one step at a time. I am also trying to share what little I know as I am very much a newbie myself. HeliFreak is awesome and led me to ArchmageAU and his excellent training which I try to keep following. Getting better on my slow upright piros every time. I am a bit stuck on my progress on real flying as money has caught up to me so I will have to take a pause unfortunately. Hopefully I will return with many sim hours under my belt and crash much less. I know there are some vast differences real versus simulated but getting the basics nailed down with the training and staying within my limits will allow me to fly better when I spool up again for real.

Yeah I wouldn't quote a huge post like that either...

There are differences, for sure. My method is ( I too am doing Arch's lessons) Is to gain proficiency in the sim on a particular skill,move, etc.. then when I can "Fly" that move in the sim with wind, gust's or moving down a line, and most of all when I can recover from mistakes while doing that move - Then I take it to my 180 IRL.. I get at least 3 mistakes high, then try it out. Another thing that amazes me is that the heli is less afraid than I am . Little by little I practice until I feel as comfortable IRL as I did in the sim. Eventually I'll move it to the Oxy and the 500..

Yes! Fly within my limits for sure. What's really cool ( and scary) is if I forget and just do something, and it works than I realize, "I'm not in the sim" That'll gimme pause for a sec or two.

For the Sim, I have all the control in my Tx, and do not use any of the software controls. That way I can use the same model files (correcting for swash if need be), That's how I learned about making changes in my Tx setting up flight modes, Gov's, etc..., on the sim.
I spent a lot of time adjusting Phoenix to get the response of the sim to match my helis as far as roll and yaw rates, pitch, weight inertia, size, head speeds, tail rotation etc... I would say I've got it to about 90% congruence.. As long as your spending so much time on it it's worth it.

[Miles500]

Well as the topic states what I have learned so far is that I need a better job and to develop patience LoL. I have been flying for almost 3 months and I have spent a lot of money due to lack of patience. I am not bad at flying, but not good either. I am not a huge fan of tinkering for hours. The more I read and do the more fun and understanding I gain. I've also learned that you need to stay at a comfortable flying level. I can loop and flip and roll, but it has cost me ALOT of cash.. Luckily I am in a position( not for much longer) to spend that type of cash. This is a very rewarding hobby and extremely fascinating. Although this is private business I just wanted to share that this hobby has become my new addiction and since starting to really dive head first into flying I have replaced my previous addiction with flying. I look forward to my advancement in this hobby and in learning as much as I can.

Thanks

[toadiscoil]

Thanks for sharing. I have to say that at the early stages unless you follow a strict training program you will (as you have seen) crash and spend a lot. I recommend you read from the beginning of this thread for some tips I hope you find useful.

The rewards are coherent with the risk as with almost everything. So if you have tons of money and time you actually progress faster flying for real. But if you are more cautious and patient and disciplined you will move slower but with better planted feet so to speak. I cannot thank enough ArchmageAU for his training truly practicing orientations in the upright piro has me experience significant improvement on my sim. I crashed so I am without a Heli now but I am confident I can pilot much better from what I can do on the sim now. But yes sim not equal to real since computers cannot simulate everything that happens on real life so always progress on both fronts but slower for real.

I also have grown very passionate for this hobby but unfortunately I already reached that point where budget caught up to me.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Miles500

Well as the topic states what I have learned so far is that I need a better job and to develop patience LoL. I have been flying for almost 3 months and I have spent a lot of money due to lack of patience. I am not bad at flying, but not good either. I am not a huge fan of tinkering for hours. The more I read and do the more fun and understanding I gain. I've also learned that you need to stay at a comfortable flying level. I can loop and flip and roll, but it has cost me ALOT of cash.. Luckily I am in a position( not for much longer) to spend that type of cash. This is a very rewarding hobby and extremely fascinating. Although this is private business I just wanted to share that this hobby has become my new addiction and since starting to really dive head first into flying I have replaced my previous addiction with flying. I look forward to my advancement in this hobby and in learning as much as I can.

Thanks

[Not_Here]

Originally Posted by toadiscoil

Thanks for sharing. I have to say that at the early stages unless you follow a strict training program you will (as you have seen) crash and spend a lot. I recommend you read from the beginning of this thread for some tips I hope you find useful. :::::::SNIP:::::::

. But yes sim not equal to real since computers cannot simulate everything that happens on real life so always progress on both fronts but slower for real. :::::snip::::::

I would also like to point you toward CaptJac! talk about another Giant among our peers!
Take a look at his thread here Phoenix Simulator Flight School

Another tireless,dedicated, passionate, teacher. Such a good guy. and has one of the best one on one methods you'll come across short of standing at the field.

Peace!

[naga]

I second that with CaptJac!

I was lucky enough to have weekly lessons with him for nearly a year.

Captain, you taught me to fly! Thank you!!!

[toadiscoil]

Hey thanks both for the info. I spend too much time on Helifreak as it is so now on to Runryder would be suicide

But does anyone know how to get a hold of him? I would be interested in just his criticism of my flight videos on the sim to find out what I can focus on to keep improving. Also I have HeliX and neXt one more sim would be one too many for me at this point.

Thanks!

[naga]

Captain Jac really is a great teacher, a Giant indeed. He has helped literally hundreds of students and as I said got me flying. Over the course of my lessons with him we have become friends.

You can contact him as below, just send him a Private Message at this RCGroups thread:

CaptJac:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1234396