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Old 04-06-2016, 04:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Jeti-->Spek DX9 wireless buddy box

When I got my DS14, I sold my DX8. Of course now, I have switched over all of my heli RX's to Jeti as well.

Now, after a few months, I realize that I miss the capability of wireless buddy boxing that the DX9 and DX8 combo offered. So, now, I am looking to add that capability back, using the radios I still have. Jeti DS14 as the instructor and Spek DX9 as the student.

After a little bit of digging around, I think I have figured out how to do it and with relative ease and very little cost. A big shout out goes to a guy named Eury over at the RCTS forum for the ideas and info.

So, anyway, I'm going to use this thread to show how I did it, and ask questions as needed.

The general idea is that I am going to mount a Spektrum compatible RX inside the DS14. The RX has a PPM out that I will plug in to the PPM in, inside the DS14. Then, using free mixes, I will mix each channel of the Spek RX with the corresponding DS14 channels.

I will be using the Lemon 8ch DSMX with PPM out RX.



Does anyone happen to know exactly what connector is used on the PPM port on the inside of the Jeti? It's the unused 4 pin connector that is immediately to the right of the SD card when looking at the inside of the radio. I want to use the proper connector for this.



Here is the vid for inspiration. The guy that made the vid did not know which connector was the actual correct one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1EK...0osrwA&index=1
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Old 04-06-2016, 05:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This is one of the reason I haven't switched to JETI, interested to hear how it all works out.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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No problem man, glad I helped you. I used it for quite a while like that and it worked very well. The guy who is making the module bays found a source for the proper connector. I'd bet a Spektrum satellite connector would work really well.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Eury View Post
No problem man, glad I helped you. I used it for quite a while like that and it worked very well. The guy who is making the module bays found a source for the proper connector. I'd bet a Spektrum satellite connector would work really well.
Oh nice! Hi there! I didn't realize you were over here as well! ( I must be half brain dead. Not sure how I didnt realize that. My apologies.) Thank you again for the inspiration.

I already ordered the Lemon RX with PPM out. I'll have to hit up Raleigh to see about those connectors. I asked Jeti USA and they told me they did not know which exact connector it was. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

I have several different connectors here at the house that I might try. I think the Spek sat connectors are a bit small having looked at it all up close. The Spek sats use a 1.5mm pin. This Jeti connector looks slightly larger than that to me. I could be wrong though.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I do have a question for you though, Eury.

In your video you show that both the master and slave radio have control. Is the output to the model the sum of the two inputs?

For example, lets say he adds right aileron,and you add left, does the model just go to zero aileron? Or does it only use your input?

Or if he gives lets say, 50% to the right and you go 20% right, does the model go 70% right or just your input?

If that is the case, have you ever found yourself in a weird situation where you are "fighting" with the student while he is "fighting" with the aircraft?

I was just trying to figure out how that works.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 99100 View Post
This is one of the reason I haven't switched to JETI, interested to hear how it all works out.


You can cross this reason off your list then.

There are four ways to buddy-box wirelessly with a Jeti TX.

1 - As detailed in this thread. With a third-party PPM out-capable RX wired to the Jeti TX

2 - Using a Jeti R3 receiver wired to the student TX (The R3 is able to act as a TX module)

3 - Using a Jetibox wired to the student TX

4 - Using a Jeti module, such as the TU-2 wired to the student TX
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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For example, lets say he adds right aileron,and you add left, does the model just go to zero aileron? Or does it only use your input?



The inputs from both transmitters are considered based on the percentage you assign.

So if you assign 50% to each transmitter, and one inputs full left aileron and the other, full right aileron, the output would be zero aileron.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So then, unless the student drops the sticks, you would be fighting their input. Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about that.

I suppose the idea would be to have that total control on the spring loaded trained switch.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Jeti-->Spek DX9 wireless buddy box

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Originally Posted by KiloXray View Post
So then, unless the student drops the sticks, you would be fighting their input. Hmmm. Not sure how I feel about that.



I suppose the idea would be to have that total control on the spring loaded trained switch.


Yes. Exactly.

Obviously, once you switch back to teacher mode, the student has zero influence.

EDIT:

NB. I refer to the traditional buddy-box scenarios.

The ones numbered 2,3 and 4 in my previous post.

I've not tried the system you propose. It may work differently.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Groucho_ View Post
You can cross this reason off your list then.

There are four ways to buddy-box wirelessly with a Jeti TX.

......

4 - Using a Jeti module, such as the TU-2 wired to the student TX
Yep, I was lucky enough to get hold of a used Jeti module and have a box that it mounts in and supplies power and takes a buddybox ppm input so I can plug it into my DX8 (or any other Tx) and wireless BB to my Jeti, works great.

//Dennis.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi guys... Hope I can help here.

As for buddy boxing... You can use:

Jeti R3 with special firmware to act as PPM IN. ( then hook into trainer on the DX9 while it's set up like using a sim.)
That works as the built in Jeti to Jeti wireless trainer which is on/off like normal. (You can reverse map and allow or disallow any channels.)

The method you found... Ppm out receiver, into the plug you found... Can be powered by the Jeti battery but it's 1 cell... ( voltage step up makes it higher) This isn't really a trainer. It will use a lot of mixes too. But here's how you may do that:

1. Mix in ppm in ch x to whatever at 100% or -100% if you need the input flipped or reversed.
(Both trainer and student work at same time, which you said you don't think you'll like...)
2. Map your stick inputs to the wrong ones. (So four are th/pitch, aileron, elev, rudder) your heli is 7ch, so 1-7 are the real controls... 8,9,10,11 are your remaps. 8, thr stick, 9 aileron stick, 10, elev stick, and 11, rudder stick.

Now it's broke as crap! Nothing works right? TH and collective don't map to squat... So make them map from ch 8 when the trainer switch is off. You need to hook in 5 ch for trainer, and 5 ch for your own control, (throttle, pitch, ail, elev, and rudder) so 10 free mixes. If you did the traditional way, you need even more. (BTW... That replace logic... Would do this in 5 mixes.)

Before you think I'm nuts... I built this on day 1 with Jeti for my daughter actually. I made her quad fly from either stick input, or from the accelerometers (ipad style) haha! Took 8 mixes and 8 extra channels.

Ch 1-4 really control the quad... Mapped from nothing.
Ch 5-8 mapping of the sticks for control...
Ch 9-12 mapping of accelerometers for control... (Just like the trainer part on ppm in)
Mixes - replaced ch1-4 with either 5-8 or 9-12 depending on fly with sticks or accelerometers.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm tracking. I think that #1 there will probably be ok for me. I just need to have a switch to cut the input from the student, that's easy.

Also, you mentioned 5 channels to mix? I think you really would still only need 4.

AIL
ELE
RUD
and PITCH.

Throttle does not really need to be given to the student. I can run throttle from my IU switch on my radio.

I am also thinking that you could even set it up so that if the instructor hit the rescue switch (assuming you are using an FBL that has rescue) it could automatically cut input from the student.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloXray View Post
I do have a question for you though, Eury.

In your video you show that both the master and slave radio have control. Is the output to the model the sum of the two inputs?

For example, lets say he adds right aileron,and you add left, does the model just go to zero aileron? Or does it only use your input?

Or if he gives lets say, 50% to the right and you go 20% right, does the model go 70% right or just your input?

If that is the case, have you ever found yourself in a weird situation where you are "fighting" with the student while he is "fighting" with the aircraft?

I was just trying to figure out how that works.

KX... You can add this too. Just saying... (It just hit me.)

If you want the normal trainer mix mentioned, where you fight eachother for control... Then want to stack the deck so you (teacher) always win... You can.

You set logical switches that if the trainer switch you choose is on AND your elevator control is 0, mix the student.

Do it that way and you move any stick, no contest, you win on that specific control... But the other mixes are unaffected... Release your stick, student gets control again.

That's possible and just does a logical switch for each channel.

Your trainer switch AND stick position is 0. (So if either of those conditions become not true, the mix is not applied... Since you create one for each channel, you get independent takeover and release for each one... You can nudge... Or fully take over... Your choice, but if you move a stick at all, it's all you on that channel.)

These TX's are marvels no doubt... But just wait till more OpenTX guys who build more funky stuff than I do come to Jeti... Well be spoiled to death!
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloXray View Post
I'm tracking. I think that #1 there will probably be ok for me. I just need to have a switch to cut the input from the student, that's easy.

Also, you mentioned 5 channels to mix? I think you really would still only need 4.

AIL
ELE
RUD
and PITCH.

Throttle does not really need to be given to the student. I can run throttle from my IU switch on my radio.

I am also thinking that you could even set it up so that if the instructor hit the rescue switch (assuming you are using an FBL that has rescue) it could automatically cut input from the student.
Yep. TH would be your IU, so yeah.

As for cutting input... Yeah you could, but again, takes a ton of mixes or a logical switch, since there's "surprise! No replace"...

Cleanest way there is a logical switch that says if trainer switch is "on" AND rescue switch is "off". So anything based on that switch undoes it's change if rescue is triggered.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves View Post
KX... You can add this too. Just saying... (It just hit me.)

If you want the normal trainer mix mentioned, where you fight eachother for control... Then want to stack the deck so you (teacher) always win... You can.

You set logical switches that if the trainer switch you choose is on AND your elevator control is 0, mix the student.

Do it that way and you move any stick, no contest, you win on that specific control... But the other mixes are unaffected... Release your stick, student gets control again.

That's possible and just does a logical switch for each channel.

Your trainer switch AND stick position is 0. (So if either of those conditions become not true, the mix is not applied... Since you create one for each channel, you get independent takeover and release for each one... You can nudge... Or fully take over... Your choice, but if you move a stick at all, it's all you on that channel.)

These TX's are marvels no doubt... But just wait till more OpenTX guys who build more funky stuff than I do come to Jeti... Well be spoiled to death!
Good thinking, GJ! I like this direction. Once I get things a little further along, I will probably explore it further. I'm still so new to the Jeti that I really don't have a full grasp of the possibilities yet.

This shit is so cool, LOL.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KiloXray View Post
Good thinking, GJ!I like this direction. Once I get things a little further along, I will probably explore it further. I'm still so new to the Jeti that I really don't have a full grasp of the possibilities yet.
Possibilities are pretty limitless. Might send you back to the "upgrade-a-tron" for features you didn't think you'd need at first... But it's pretty limitless.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm still so new to the Jeti that I really don't have a full grasp of the possibilities yet.

I think it would be much, much better for you to use a more conventional way for your buddy-boxing.

Sure, you can make the method being discussed work, but personally, I'd only do it as an experiment, just because it can be done and to try it out.

Functionally though, either of the three other methods I mentioned are by far more preferable and work straight away with zero configuration required.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Groucho_ View Post
I think it would be much, much better for you to use a more conventional way for your buddy-boxing.

Sure, you can make the method being discussed work, but personally, I'd only do it as an experiment, just because it can be done and to try it out.

Functionally though, either of the three other methods I mentioned are by far more preferable and work straight away with zero configuration required.
But are also 2 or 3 times the cost as far as I can tell.

I will be trying this for about $30.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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But are also 2 or 3 times the cost as far as I can tell.



I will be trying this for about $30.


The R3 option would set you back around $65, yes.

Again, I'd rather spend an extra $30 and do it the right way. But that's if I'm paying. I understand if your situation is different.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Groucho_ View Post
The R3 option would set you back around $65, yes.

Again, I'd rather spend an extra $30 and do it the right way. But that's if I'm paying. I understand if your situation is different.
OK, I'll bite. What additional functionality do I get by going with an R3? What kind of handoff and taking of control does that give you. Different from the possibilities with the PPM in and mixes?

How does one attach it to the DX9? If I am running a cable from the plug in the back of the DX9, doesnt that mean that I have this whole big thing dangling off of my DX9 now? With the proposed method I will have an RX inside of the Jeti and nothing dangling anywhere. Seems it is certainly the cleanest setup, even if it requires a bit more programming.

So far I am seeing my proposed method as difficult yet possible instead of possible yet too difficult.
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