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Old 05-29-2017, 02:50 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Flying the Flag for Memorial Day

Honoring Memorial Day by flying the flag, yes truly flying the flag.

It was a little calm today but it came to life. Wanted some wind today for the flag, every other flying day I want calm air and get wind...go figure.

See the long line comparison video on the previous page post 40.

Memorial Day Velos 880 Flying the Flag (0 min 41 sec)
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Well Ain't you a Water Bottle Slinging Son Of Gun Eh ?
My My My
Was that not a pretty awesome sight man
Really liked how you got up over the load
Man u must have been grinning like "Jack The Bear " Eh ?

Don't you think the Broom Head will skip over the branch as she pulls
Unless you can somehow get the Broom Guide Rope/String under the log or Is there still any branches on it ? Perhaps snagging guide Rope/String will catch one

Me thinks Pa Pa will be building a weighted snare and hook that bugger off of there

When does the How short can I make the long line and have good control and not mess my drawers experiment start ?

Just out of Curiosity How long was the Flag line ?

That was very cool mate , gotta film the Old log removal for sure
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:26 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Falung_69 View Post
Well Ain't you a Water Bottle Slinging Son Of Gun Eh ?
My My My
Was that not a pretty awesome sight man
Really liked how you got up over the load
Man u must have been grinning like "Jack The Bear " Eh ?

Don't you think the Broom Head will skip over the branch as she pulls
Unless you can somehow get the Broom Guide Rope/String under the log or Is there still any branches on it ? Perhaps snagging guide Rope/String will catch one

Me thinks Pa Pa will be building a weighted snare and hook that bugger off of there

When does the How short can I make the long line and have good control and not mess my drawers experiment start ?

Just out of Curiosity How long was the Flag line ?

That was very cool mate , gotta film the Old log removal for sure

Yes sir...big grin on my face when I pulled pitch, the jug popped up off the ground and just hung there nice and calm with no craziness.

The branch on my roof has been up there so long the smaller branches have rotted off it so its just the larger portion laying in the valley.
I wouldn't be able to use a claw type device because it would be difficult to get the claw in a position where it could grab it.
On a flat surface that would work great but down in that valley, it becomes more difficult.

The branch isn't that big and I have reconsidered my options. I have scrapped the idea of dragging the broom head down the roof valley with a string guided by my wife.
I will be positioning the broom head above the branch and using gravity and the Velos for motive force, just drag the broom down and sweep the branch off the roof.
Should work very well. I wish the branch did have its smaller branches still on it, it could be snagged easily with the long line and removed that way.
I know this will work, I have played it over and over in my mind and it worked every time.

For solid weights or loads I will be sticking to the 10 meter line. I know 3.5 meter is too short to control and 10 meter has perfect control so somewhere in between is the 3.5 length and the 10 meter line is the length that will still allow control but be shorter the 10 meter.
The 10 meter line works perfect so I'll be sticking with it for future loads.

You picked up on the flag line being shorter than 10 meters.
You are correct.
With loads that can generate their own wind resistance, you can use a shorter line. The loads wind resistance will dampen out any swinging motion and make it easy to control...like the flag.
With the flag, you still have to use a longer than shorter line to get the flag out of the main rotor down wash that will effectively prevent the flag from waving properly.
That line length on the big Velos is 5 meters, anything shorter will put the flag in down wash and ruin the flags ability to fly...I know from trying shorter lines.

To find that magic length easily, if one wanted to fly a flag, you can take a long length of cord, add small streamers to it at 1 meter intervals and take it for a flight.
Put the model in a hover and observe the streamers. You will see where the streamers stop fluttering from the rotor down wash, count the number of streamers to remember that point and that's the length you will use for the flag, no more trial and error you can figure it out in one flight.

Thinking of other crazy fun things to do with the cargo hook.
For a fun challenge or competitions at flying events.
"How much weight did you say you can lift with your model?"
"Would you like to put a bet on it?"

I can see a pile of steel chain laying on the ground with markers on the chain for indicating every 5 pounds .
It should be coiled laying on the ground so it comes up evenly and not having other chain laying over the part leaving the ground, that way it becomes a fair contest.
You hook that chain to your cargo hook or heli in some way and see how high you can lift the chain vertically seeing how may markers you can lift off the ground and from that, tell you how much weight you just lifted.
A contest such as this would really separate the men from the boys with the ESC manufactures and also who has good solder connections.
Crazy...you bet...fun...yes because its crazy.
Kind of like the old tractor pulls but done vertically with model helicopters.

Yes I have a busy mind...but it keeps me busy.
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default The Hook!

Created a short video about the cargo hook using some old footage and some new. Hope you like it, remember it's just for fun.
...also if you look close you will notice the sky diver with the lime green canopy had a streamer and had to cut away to his reserve...he made it down without injury.

Sorry Clark the log in the valley video is still in the works...soon.

Velos 880 Cargo Hook (4 min 2 sec)
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Old 06-03-2017, 10:35 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default The Amp Numbers

For those who may be curious here are the amp numbers for loads of 8.3 and 16.6 pounds.

On my CC logs I see a single motor amp draw of 34.1 or a combined amperage of 68.2 amps to lift 8.3 pounds.

To lift 16.6 pounds I see 39.65 amps single motor or 79.3 combined to drive the rotor.

Hover amperage for a comparison is around 30 amps per motor or 60 combined at the rotor.

All loads were on the long line.
The Velos handled the 16 pound load with ease with very good control with zero rotor RPM drop, very impressive in climb out.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:38 PM   #46 (permalink)
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For those who may be unfamiliar and just to be clear on the weights I mentioned in the above post, my Velos 880 weighs in at 21 pounds so the 8.3 load added on the long line brings the total flying weight to 29.3 pounds and with the 16.6 pound load added, the total flying weight comes to 37.6 pounds.

Another gallon of water or another 8.3 pounds would bring the total flying weight to 45.9 pounds or just under the 50 pound MTOW that Aris has set for the Velos UAV.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:47 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Knowing how much liquid I can carry and while using the Velos to blow one of my sky divers off the roof of my house I see its starting to get some staining to the shingles. 3 gallons of roof cleaner would cover a good bit of roof, looks like I am going to figure out how to make a rigid mounted sprinkle bucket to apply the cleaner in the stained areas. The roof is too high with multiple levels and dangerous to climb on, the Velos is the answer.
Another project...I like it!
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Old 06-03-2017, 03:08 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Everytime I get a notification saying you've posted a new video I hope that the water jug will be putting out a fire lol

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Old 06-03-2017, 04:02 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ChadCarlin View Post
Everytime I get a notification saying you've posted a new video I hope that the water jug will be putting out a fire lol

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Give me time!
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Old 06-03-2017, 04:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Velos Slow Motion Flight

I told you guys earlier how accurate the Velos 880 sounds to a full scale Bell 204/205/212 when playing the video in slow motion....

Turn up your volume! Loud! And Enjoy.

Clark...this is for you my friend as you have a lot of time spent around long lines and Bell 212s.

Velos 880 16.6 Pound Lift in Slow Motion (5 min 15 sec)
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Old 06-05-2017, 10:12 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Well done - Cool to see that at that line length it starts calming down.

What type of a line do you use for this?
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:19 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Well done - Cool to see that at that line length it starts calming down.

What type of a line do you use for this?
Any small rope that will handle the load will work, I just used some small nylon rope.
The length of the line is key in controlling the load, longer is better than shorter. If your load has a lot of wind resistance a shorter line can be used.

I always wondered why crane operators would always run their booms all the way out and up then run down what looks like a tremendous long length of cable to move a small load. I guess the long length gives it stability.
Any crane operators out their to confirm my suspicions?
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:17 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:26 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post
Perfect idea...just not set up with any telemetry yet.

I'll just be cautious and limit flight time until I know what the ESC temps and amp draw is for a given load. I am betting ESC temps will be my limit before amp draw or rotor RPM bogging.

Thanks Carlos!


I came across the following thread that made me think about your project.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=7389842

Carlos
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:43 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CZorzella View Post
I came across the following thread that made me think about your project.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=7389842

Carlos
Thanks Carlos!

Good read.
I have been incrementally increasing my load by 8.3 pounds or one gallon of water each time which has set up a pattern in amp draw and heat. Each gallon of water increases the amp draw by 4 to 5 amps so that gives me a base line on what I can expect for a given load.
As I pointed out in a previous post a single motor on my Velos draws 30 amps in a hover. Add a gallon of water and it increases to 34 amps, add another gallon of water and the amps go up to 39 and so on.

The amp spikes one gets from flying 3D are very high in comparison to lifting dead weight as I am.
The big differance is duration of the amp draw. The 3D spike to 160 amps doesn't create the heat of prolonged flight with a load at a much lower amp draw.

I have no reason to go higher than 3 gallons of water or 24.9 pounds of load which puts the Velos right at 50 pounds AUW in flight.
My water tank project to clean the roof of my house (this will be a hard mounted belly tank, not on a long line) will be set to 2 gallons of solution per load, If it does a good job for me at that volume I'll stick with it. If not I can always add another gallon.

I'll be watching my ESC temps closly as they appear to be influenced most by the added weight. Motor temps are good, battery temps are good.

If needed and just because it would be one more thing for me to build, I may bring my ESCs out to be flush or slightly protruding into the airstream out side the canopy.
If you look at my build I have both ESCs mounted on the sides of the fuselage plates.
I could easily cut larger vent holes in the sides of my canopy to match the cooling fins of my ESCs and mount them so the cooling fins are in the slip stream. With all the rotor down wash in a hover and in forward flight there should be ample airflow accross the ESCs to help keep them cooler.
It will be an interresting mod and test to see any cooling effect.

Full scale helis have all my attension now but hopefully this week end I can do the log chain lift...video included so stay tuned.
That should be fun and a great addition to fun flys.
Hook your heli up to the chain coiled on the ground. The chain has markers identifying its weight at specific intervals.
Pull pitch and see how much chain you can lift. It would be an easy way for every one to see what they can do in one flight as opposed to landing after each lift and adding weight to the load...simple and quick.

You can impress your buddy on how much power your heli has or impress him with the fire ball if you pull too hard.
Sounds like fun to me, and if your heli has a failure, no worries, the chain won't let it go.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:43 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default 16.6 pound lift video playback full speed.

Decided to post the normal playback speed of the 16.6 pound lift with the 10 meter long line just for those who don't want to watch the slow speed version. (sound track of the slow motion version was cool though wasn't it)

Velos 880 16 6 Pound Lift (1 min 19 sec)
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:51 PM   #57 (permalink)
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well done
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:09 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default The 25 pound lift.

Next up in my lifting experiment is 25 pounds.
I wanted to see if the amp increase was consistent for a given weight increase and it is very close. Comes out to about 5.5 amps per 6.3 pound weight increase.
Flying the 25 pound load uses an average 46.26 amps per motor. The total weight plus the Velos is 46 pounds.

Also been learning the ropes with flying a long line, no pun intended.
I have become very good at flying the lighter loads but need practice with the 25 pound load.
At 25 pounds the load is heavier than the Velos and this changes control manipulation a lot. The Velos has ample power to fly it but you have to relearn some aspects of flying.
Collective pitch is king when flying heavy loads. At 46 pounds AUW you don't need to reduce collective pitch much to get a rapid decent. Things can get out of hand in a hurry so small stick moves are mandatory.

Also never fly a long line tail in or nose in to your position. You can't perceive motion either forward or backward fast enough to make corrections before the load starts a wild swing which can be hard to stop.

Fly a long line with a 45 degree fuselage center line to your position so you can see the forward and backward drift of the model and make quick corrections to prevent load swing.
It definitely takes practice to be successful because control is so different with the long line.

Velos 880 24 9 Pound Lift (1 min 30 sec)
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:05 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default A Real Life Usage for a Long Line and helping a Rice farmer

Beside my flying field there is a bunch of Rice fields



So buddy there is packing out a 20kg (44Lbs) bag of veggies I know not rice but vegetables from one of the back fields, I stopped him as he drove by and he said about 20 kg of veggies



Not like they would pay you for this service or could you even lift that much without hurting the machine ?
Also on the way home that day it was melon harvest and about 20 people packing out Baskets of Melons (Sorry No photo was driving and could not pull over)

This all made me think of you and your experiment there , Now lets see if you can come up with some tanks and a some spray booms with nozzles , Now this you could make some cash with (Well here anyways not sure how much rice field you got by your flying field )

Really like the vids , But no news on that nasty old branch Little Ma Ma wants you to remove

Clark
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:46 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Clark my good friend...good to hear from you!

Lifting 44 pounds with the Velos would probably take between 70 to 80 amps per motor if the current amp increase I see with the graduated weight increase I have already done holds true.
Aris has set the max gross weight of the Velos UAV at 50 pounds. The 880 has the same drive train so I think that would be a realistic limitation for the 880 as well. I was at a gross weight of 46 pounds with the 25 pounds on the line which it handled very easily. Rotor RPMs at that weight didn't bog even a slight amount so there is room for more if I wanted to add it on.
My focus now is with a payload of 25 pounds or so now that I know there is no problem lifting and flying with it.
I am thinking up possible real world tasks that could be done using that weight as a guide.
The 25 pounds is what I would carry as a tool for a specific task or a liquid for application of some kind.
I have two ideas I am working on now.
Sorry, but neither have anything to do with a long line.
I haven't thought up a use for that yet.
The long line was an easy way to carry weight without hard mounting it to the Velos to see how much weight I could easily carry without stressing the airframe.

Concerning the branch on my roof...this is why you haven't seen a video of me sweeping it off with the Velos.
I had already told you it has been on the roof for years and even the hardest rain couldn't wash it off...well that rain finally came, the branch was washed down and off the roof a couple weeks ago.
I guess it knew the Velos was coming to sweep it away so it just jumped off.

Just have to build my two ideas now and try them out...should be interesting, entertaining and educational. Yes their will be video.

Thanks for sharing the photos...looks like a fantastic location!
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