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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 07-15-2017, 06:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default First time rewindind align 600mx 510kv

Hey guys,this is my first attempt at rewinding a motor,never done it before.

I ve done as much reasearch on the subject as i could,had some great help from some friends on other boards,and here i am.

It is originally winded with 12 turns of 6 x 0.35 wire.I am going to rewind it with 1.06 mono cable and 7 turns to alter it from 510kv to 870kv.

It came to my understanding that it is a dLRK winding (12arms 10 poles) but in this page identifies the winding schem as "black" meaning it wont work

http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/info/

So,what am i missing?
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I just looked at that link and 12 10P is blue. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Blue is the single layer wind which leaves half the arms without wire.The 2 layer which winds all the arms is black

http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/scheme/calculator/



PS:Sutty you dont remember me,do you?We used to have long talks back in the day,maybe 8-10 years ago in the belt cp forum.I also did my tarot500 and my t-rex700 gasser in that section of HF
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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No, I didn't forget Giorgos, I just answered earlier without thinking about who. Hoping you are well. Who could forget the infamous 600 crash scene investigation.

I just took it to be the background colours, but like I said, I could be missing something. Now I look more closely, I'm more confused than ever. I don't see any red, only orange, and I don't see any legend for green.

Are you sure it doesn't refer to the background colour, because if it doesn't there's no white either, and they'd nearly all be black.

Probably best to wait until someone who has used it before and can chip in, and perhaps reference another schedule, or tool.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sutty you do remember!I m honored!Thought the crash scene investigation was a raptor .50!

Sutty i think you are right,you just opened my eyes!i ve been head over heels in this rewinding thing the past days i didnt even notice the background had colors.I was just looking at the text color!So i guess orange is red and i m good to go "in the blue"!

Also,i have read you thread on the 600mx rewinding...Sutty how did you remove the stator from the stator carrier?do i have to make a keyway like you did?I dont want to do that :p
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was and am a complete noob. I took people's advice and followed it. If I recall, I put it in the freezer, then the oven, and repeat, until you can break it free with a few taps. I found a round bar that fitted perfectly, and hit it carefully with a small hammer, whilst holding the rest in a gloved hand.

As for the pin, I didn't know if it was necessary or not. It didn't have one to begin with, but again, I took the received advice and fitted one. Wasn't that hard to do and has given me peace of mind that it isn't going anywhere.

I'm still flying that motor, and it works a treat. Great feeling to have successfully followed the guidance and come up with a better motor than I had previously. Couldn't have been more pleased with how that turned out.

Good luck with yours.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgos_cupra View Post
Sutty you do remember!I m honored!Thought the crash scene investigation was a raptor .50!

Sutty i think you are right,you just opened my eyes!i ve been head over heels in this rewinding thing the past days i didnt even notice the background had colors.I was just looking at the text color!So i guess orange is red and i m good to go "in the blue"!

Also,i have read you thread on the 600mx rewinding...Sutty how did you remove the stator from the stator carrier?do i have to make a keyway like you did?I dont want to do that :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by sutty View Post
I was and am a complete noob. I took people's advice and followed it. If I recall, I put it in the freezer, then the oven, and repeat, until you can break it free with a few taps. I found a round bar that fitted perfectly, and hit it carefully with a small hammer, whilst holding the rest in a gloved hand.

As for the pin, I didn't know if it was necessary or not. It didn't have one to begin with, but again, I took the received advice and fitted one. Wasn't that hard to do and has given me peace of mind that it isn't going anywhere.

I'm still flying that motor, and it works a treat. Great feeling to have successfully followed the guidance and come up with a better motor than I had previously. Couldn't have been more pleased with how that turned out.

Good luck with yours.
If you don't want to create a keyway for a pin you can glue the stator to a clean carrier with 603 Loctite. I used 300 grit wet dry sandpaper and acetone to prep the carrier so the adhesive would have a good surface to bite. It will hold it but be aware if you decide you want to rewind it again it will take 250*C (482*F) to break the bond once it has set. It is extremely strong.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutty View Post
I was and am a complete noob. I took people's advice and followed it. If I recall, I put it in the freezer, then the oven, and repeat, until you can break it free with a few taps. I found a round bar that fitted perfectly, and hit it carefully with a small hammer, whilst holding the rest in a gloved hand.

As for the pin, I didn't know if it was necessary or not. It didn't have one to begin with, but again, I took the received advice and fitted one. Wasn't that hard to do and has given me peace of mind that it isn't going anywhere.

I'm still flying that motor, and it works a treat. Great feeling to have successfully followed the guidance and come up with a better motor than I had previously. Couldn't have been more pleased with how that turned out.

Good luck with yours.
Thank you old friend!I m gonna need as much luck as i can get!
As for the stator,somebody suggested to wrap the stator in a towel and the stator carrier in another towel.Grab them with pliers and counter rotate them till they brake loose.I dont know if this gonna work in an 600 size motor...I see it working for smaller ones.Maybe if i heat it it will break the "glue" bond?I dont know....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BOHO View Post
If you don't want to create a keyway for a pin you can glue the stator to a clean carrier with 603 Loctite. I used 300 grit wet dry sandpaper and acetone to prep the carrier so the adhesive would have a good surface to bite. It will hold it but be aware if you decide you want to rewind it again it will take 250*C (482*F) to break the bond once it has set. It is extremely strong.
1BOHO that's the way i'm gonna go.Locktite 603 and be done with it.I hope it wont come apart in mid air and have to rewind it.Although if it comes apart mid air,rewinding the motor s gonna be the least of my problems.

This leads us to encapsulation....I have read as many threads as i could found....Some suggest thinned out epoxy,some just epoxy drops on the windings,some a specialized UHU and a local old time winder suggested polyester resin with a drop of hardener.Unfortunately the local market here,doesnt have many option on the subject
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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ok,the grub screw that holds the shaft is stripped.....now what?
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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By stripped, do you mean the hex has rounded out?
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeap,seems like heating it up wasn't enough to break the thread lock bond.It's not completely rounded,but enough for the allen key not to grab

Edit:Never mind got it
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Is this an antirotation pin i am seeing?I though align didnt use this,insted they glued the stator on the carrier
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Glad you got the screw out. What did you do, for future reference. I have an awsome set of MIP drivers, and since I got them I've never rounded anything when using them. In fact, when I first got them, I could remove previously rounded ones, because they fit so tightly and squarely, right to the bottom of the socket I suppose. Actually it kind of mystifies me, but they do it somehow.

As for the pin, maybe they changed it. I can't really make it out on the picture, but even if there is a pin, I think it will still be glued, so it can't move up.

Regardless, I think you will need to try the heat and cool trick. I've only rewound 2, but I've taken a couple more apart, and all four were tough. One I destroyed, it was so well fixed, but I can't remember if I used the heat cool trick on that one, though probably not.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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First i made a new rod for my heat gun,one that could fit in there.I took a 10mm rod made a stepdown to 5mm and another to 3.Then i took 2 of my old steel allen keys,grind about 3-4mm on the disk grinder from the end,so i had a brand new unused surface.

Let the iron glow red and drove it right in to the grub screw.Let it for 30-40 seconds and gave it a try with the allen....Allen stripped.Again heat it up for about a minute,second allen and the screw gave in....Came out squeling till the last thread.

I have the package in the freezer.I m going to try to punch the carrier out tomorrow.Some suggest a socket,others say it will damage the aluminum carrier....i dont know...
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Cheers, sounds like a good trick.

For separating, I was lucky in that I found some brass bar that was a perfect fit, so it wasn't so harsh. The end was a little chewed when I found it, so I ground it flat, so it would be a nice fit.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I m almost done with the motor.I am one step from throwing it in the garbage,i m not even going to put it together,just throw it as is.

I had it in the freezer since yesterday.Hammering it out didnt work.I put it on a vice and tried rotating since it hasnt actually a pin,no sign of it on the stator carrier,still nothing.

Minor damage to the stator carrier from the hammering but that's it,nothing else....It wont budge
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Get it in the oven. Don't give up. I really got a good kick out of completing a rewind on mine.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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60c for 20 minutes or 250c for 20 minutes sutty?
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I cannot tell from the photo but have the ball bearings been removed yet? To keep from damaging the stator don't put it in a straight vice without some type of soft jaw as a vice has enough strength to take the stator out of round.
Fashion yourself a soft jaw with a profile like my attachment of wood as thick as the stators length. Use the stator as a template to cut the appropriate sized hole. Use this soft jaw you created in between your vice jaws to hold the stator. The combination of heat and cold will eventually break the bond. Holding the stator in the vice like this should allow you to tap the stator out with a dowel that has an OD just a bit smaller that the bearings OD.

If you want to try to twist the stator use a flat piece of bar stock about 36 cm long and create a breaking bar to bolt to the carrier using the motor mount screw locations. The vice with the soft jaws will still serve the purpose of holding the stator securely while you apply twisting pressure.

Once you break the initial bond by which ever means you should be able to tap the carrier out of the stator fairly easily.

Patience is a virtue.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Sorry Giorgos, didn't see your question because I fell asleep, and have been very busy today since first thing. I can't remember what temperature, but if you search the forum, the cold heat cycle trick is mentioned a number of times.

It would need to be more than 60 though, because motors often run hotter than that anyway, so I could imagine they would be resistant to 60. That having been said, even at 60 it will be somewhat softened.

If you can't find mention of the temperature, I'll have a good search when I have a bit more time.
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