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Old 08-23-2017, 09:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What am I doing wrong?

So I am coming from Brain FBL and I have set up the 3digi on two helicopters now. First on my diabolo 550 and now on the logo 480. On both helicopters, the presets just seem so far off from what I would consider a good tune and I am just trying to see if I am missing something obvious. Behavior wise, everything just feels so loose: whether it's aileron, elevator, rudder; everything seems to overshoot. It's almost as if when I stop inputting the direction, the input decays instead of doing a hard stop like I am used to. This makes it all very hard to be precise, has anyone else experienced this? Is this just the different feel of the 3digi system?

Also, the system does not seem to be logging any info. I didn't see anywhere that I needed to turn on logging but maybe I missed it. When I select the "show flight data" button I just see an empty graph. I have a 4gb micro sd installed with fat32 formatting. I am trying to stay patient with this system since it's probably just my fault on all of these things, just looking for some help.
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File Type: txt l480.txt (13.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Important is, that you set the right amount of cyclic throw. 10 are recommended.
Try to increase and optimize the gains
You can increase the "Control feeling" setting one point to "lively" to get a more direct feeling.

The logs are recorded and saved in files on the SD card. You have to insert the card into your pc and load the data file.
There is a button "Load flightdata from file" right beside the button that you already have found.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Tuning Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrian4 View Post
So I am coming from Brain FBL and I have set up the 3digi on two helicopters now. First on my diabolo 550 and now on the logo 480. On both helicopters, the presets just seem so far off from what I would consider a good tune and I am just trying to see if I am missing something obvious. Behavior wise, everything just feels so loose: whether it's aileron, elevator, rudder; everything seems to overshoot. It's almost as if when I stop inputting the direction, the input decays instead of doing a hard stop like I am used to. This makes it all very hard to be precise, has anyone else experienced this? Is this just the different feel of the 3digi system?

You are not alone. I've had the exact same experience as well as my brother whose has figured out the solutions... simple tuning! I think the 3Digi is setup with very safe / benign flight / loose parameters by default so we don't destroy our heli's on the first flight... not sure, but maybe this was intentional as a "safety net" for the beginner pilot or someone just new to the 3Digi FBL.


I'm a bit of a newb and have basic upright orientations, hover, FFF and inverted hover... So I'm not pushing the limits very hard... my brother is more advanced sport and light/smooth 3D pilot... recently I noticed my skills are progressing a bit and I see that I'm not quite "locked-in" hand the controls over to the advanced pilot and he described pretty much exactly what you stated above... So we experimented a bit and came up with some basic findings... the "main" gains are too low for instance.


My experience is limited to a Logo 600 (direct to swash) and Fusion 50 (push/pull linkage)... For example my Fusion is very loose in flight and sensitive off center with default Normal agility and 600 size preset. I added some RC deadband... default was 10, I increased to 25 for nick, roll and yaw. That took care of the over reaction around center with shaky (in experienced) thumbs. 25 points seems to equate to +/-2.5% of the stick travel around 0 (center).

Overall gain was too low and increasing has helped keep the Fusion locked in. Also, I'm using the setting of "3" for the control feel parameter on aileron and elevator... experimenting with "4" on the tail... I'm seeing a small overshoot and bounce back at 4 and 80 agility on the tail. Setting of 3 on the tail saw some delay in stopping rotation (undershoot).

I would recommend starting with the Normal agility and select the correct model size presets for your parameter sets. If you are advanced sport or 3D pilot you can select higher control feel parameter under the Commonly tab set value 3+ for each axis.

Then setup Live Tuning parameters to switches or potentiometers on your radio for the main gains Aileron and Elevator "Overall Gain"

Read the manual and the side bar of the 3Digi software two or three times... some of the descriptions for each function are written well, some others require a little thought, experience to understand.

Be sure to operate the heli & it's components in the proper mechanical / design limits... i.e. mechanical gains such as correct Head Speed, servo arm lengths, swash and pitch geometry, et. al. All of which affect the FBL tuning.

We're still tuning and once I get a good setup I'll elaborate more.

Post your findings and questions here. Dirk is extremely helpful as are other 3digi users.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow thanks for that detailed response! Sounds exactly like what I'm experiencing, guess I just need to tune then. I feel a little dumb about the load from file thing, I tried to navigate to the card through the com Port over usb but I didn't think to just remove it.
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrian4 View Post
Wow thanks for that detailed response! Sounds exactly like what I'm experiencing, guess I just need to tune then. I feel a little dumb about the load from file thing, I tried to navigate to the card through the com Port over usb but I didn't think to just remove it.
I'm the brother from the same mother

Anyways I fly both and have noticed that 3Digi can have a dramatically different feel out of the box from heli to heli. I believe this is related to the application of gain to the model size presets, how roll rates are measured (normally deg/sec.) and model mechanics in general.

MSH seems to have a better handle on this. That doesn't mean 3Digi is lesser by any means. Just different. I recently did some live tuning by assigning the aileron and elevator main gains to a knob. I found that increasing the main gain had a major affect on the "feel". Best way to describe the feel for me was loose, far from robotic. Also the initial response (feed forward) was way off causing the model to feel erratic. Increasing the gain improved the robotic feel and made the model more stable and less reactive. However once I applied enough gain to achieve the robotic locked feel I was after, I could notice oscillations through mobius maneuvers and piro flips. I ran out of time so I haven't been able to play with the tuning further.

Don't forget to use Expo! There is none in 3Digi and MSH defaults to -20%. I use 40-50% on 3Digi!

Perhaps the initial response optimization can improve the overall feel per model. I haven't done this yet but it's on my list to try. It would be nice if this could be automated in the 3Digi. Also a major improvement to it would deg/sec rates for agility. Not sure if this is a design issue in the hardware where rotation/time isn't possible.

Best of luck!
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