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Old 08-25-2017, 01:50 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainDev View Post
Okay, I've been able to reproduce the problem and now I have understood the cause of the problem.
It is due to a software bug of the Transmitter.
Even if you exclude the voltage alarm in the "Voice trigger" menu, the voice alarm is not turned off.
The transmitter "Voice trigger" function don't work (do nothing).



The workaround is to let users to reduce the Brain2 Voltage MIN alarm value to zero (now the minimum setting value for Voltage MIN alarm corresponds to a Lipo 2S discharged). This in the next release.

Meanwhile, I report the bug to Graupner for the next Transmitter firmware update.

Thank for the information.

What I don't understand is why you want anyway to use the HoTT+Telemetry protocol also if you are using an ESC (YGE) that don't have and don't transmit any telemetry values for temperature, current, battery voltage and battery discharge.
Why you don't use the normal "HoTT" protocol (without telemetry) or as suggested by TheBum don't use the HoTT+Telemetry but without the telemetry connection to the receiver?
Because I have the ability to set the Brain from the transmitter. With the usual connection in the Hott protocol, this option is not available.

How to use Graupner-Brain integration without telemetry transmission? Which cable should I disconnect?

btw, i want to use head speed telemetry.

This problem I reported to Graupner (to Ralf Helbing) with the proposal to set the threshold for this alarm to zero and I received the answer: "the radio can not switch off any alarms, because this would be dangerous, if somebody could switch off alarms.

This update will be done by Brain."

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Old 08-26-2017, 05:02 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Default MSH Brain and Graupner integration

I just ran into this issue today after upgrading the FW on a Brain 2 and an iKON 2. I get incessant “minimum input voltage” warnings that, based on my inspection of the various modules, had no explanation except a possible Brain FW bug. I will be eagerly awaiting the fix.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:10 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Same here
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:14 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Now that Graupner and Castle is done, will Frsky/ OpenTX be next?
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:11 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
I just ran into this issue today after upgrading the FW on a Brain 2 and an iKON 2. I get incessant “minimum input voltage” warnings that, based on my inspection of the various modules, had no explanation except a possible Brain FW bug. I will be eagerly awaiting the fix.
Have the same issue but only on my OXY2....so annoying that I had to turn off the volume of the radio.
BrainDev said MSH will take care of the issue....hope this will be anytime soon...
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:59 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainDev View Post
Okay, I've been able to reproduce the problem and now I have understood the cause of the problem.
It is due to a software bug of the Transmitter.
Even if you exclude the voltage alarm in the "Voice trigger" menu, the voice alarm is not turned off.
The transmitter "Voice trigger" function don't work (do nothing).
I don?t think it?s a bug. The purpose of the Voice Triggers is to specify which parameters are reported when cycling through them using a switch. This is not alarms but just reports of values.

Alarms can be turned off in the module for all Graupner modules and even the UniSens-E. The solution is to add on/off control in the Brain. Also, I?d like to request that the alarm ?sound? be configurable (A-Z value) as it is in other modules. This allows for multiple voltage alarms to have different phrasing, for example.
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:07 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
I don?t think it?s a bug. The purpose of the Voice Triggers is to specify which parameters are reported when cycling through them using a switch. This is not alarms but just reports of values.
.
Thanks for the clarification.
But in my mind this menu of the transmitter should have a dual function.
When either "REPEAT" and "TRIGGER" are not activated, each "unselected" alarms related to that connected and recognized sensor are deactivated and ignored.
This seem to me logic and simply.

However, apart from any consideration, I have already prepared the possibility to disable alarms in two different ways:

A) The voltage threshold that generate the alarm ("Voltage MIN") can now be brought to 0.0V and this prevents the low voltage alarm from being generated.

B) Selecting "No ESC Telemetry" (for example with an YGE ESC as radziaf) ALL temperature, instantaneous current, consumed current, and voltage alarms are deactivated.

Both things individually or together eliminate the alarms.

Release within a few days (with other things).
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Last edited by BrainDev; 08-30-2017 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:23 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainDev View Post
Thanks for the clarification.
But in my mind this menu of the transmitter should have a dual function.
When either "REPEAT" and "TRIGGER" are not activated, each "unselected" alarms related to that connected and recognized sensor are deactivated and ignored.
This seem to me logic and simply.

However, apart from any consideration, I have already prepared the possibility to disable alarms in two different ways:

A) The voltage threshold that generate the alarm ("Voltage MIN") can now be brought to 0.0V and this prevents the low voltage alarm from being generated.

B) Selecting "No ESC Telemetry" (for example with an YGE ESC as radziaf) ALL temperature, instantaneous current, consumed current, and voltage alarms are deactivated.

Both things individually or together eliminate the alarms.

Release within a few days (with other things).

Thanks BrainDev!!
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:47 PM   #69 (permalink)
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B) will take care of my issue, since I’m running Graupner ESCs and never want ESC telemetry from the Brain.


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Old 09-09-2017, 06:02 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Default Delay on voltage allarm

Please, if it's possible, insert a Delay time on voltage allarm, because it's works but too much fast.
Example: 12 cells, good final end voltage could be 3,7x12=44,4 V
If i put 44,4 voltage alarm on Graupner radio, it starts to give too much often false alarm because when you make 3D it's normal that for very small time voltage drops under it. So if it will be possible to delay the voltage alarm, for example i can put 2 second of delay , so i cut all false alarm that now appear.
Thanks
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:54 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin75 View Post
Please, if it's possible, insert a Delay time on voltage allarm, because it's works but too much fast.
Example: 12 cells, good final end voltage could be 3,7x12=44,4 V
If i put 44,4 voltage alarm on Graupner radio, it starts to give too much often false alarm because when you make 3D it's normal that for very small time voltage drops under it. So if it will be possible to delay the voltage alarm, for example i can put 2 second of delay , so i cut all false alarm that now appear.
Thanks
The purpose of alarms is not to report normal conditions but to report critical conditions before they become dangerous.
The purpose of Voltage alarm is to avoid that lipo voltage go below 3,0V because if the lipo voltage go below 3,0V, lipo is permanently damaged.
Voltage alarms for lipo must be set to 3,1 / 3,2 / 3,3V.

Why you set an alarm at the "nominal" lipo voltage (3,7V)?
3,7V is the normal and nominal voltage WITHOUT ANY LOAD.
Is possible that at the end of a flight you can read this value, but on a discharged Lipo you can read this value only without any load applied (no motor, no servos, no receiver, no flybarless unit).
Lipo voltage cannot be used to measure the flight time. To measure the flight time the only valid parameter is the “Used mAh” value. Otherwise your lipos goes below 3,0V threshold.

During flight under the high load of motor is normal that, also due to the IR (Lipo internal resistance) and also ER (cables/connectors external resistances), the voltage drops.
The discharge curve of a lipo can change by brand, by model, by nominal values, by "C" rating, etc. but are all similar.
A typical lipo discharge curve with a fixed load is like that I already put in this post:
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...po#post7238872
As you can see, the ∆V/∆t between 10% of discharge and 90% of discharge is very very small, but the load variation due to the Pitch, Cyclic and tail variations during a flight generate a very higher voltage variation compared to the normal voltage discharge. So, the voltage “noisy” due to the load variation is too high compared to the nominal “signal” variations. Signal/noisy become a value less than one.
Only at the last 10% of power in the lipo the ∆V/∆t become high. But at this time can be too late to have the time to land because if the lipo voltage go below 3,0V the lipo is permanently damaged, and this can easily happen with the variable load of the motor.

I suggest you check the voltage trend of your Lipo during flight with Brain2 Logs function. You can go in DIAGNOSTIC -> Parameters setting and set 50Hz for Sample Rate and assign the “ESC Battery Voltage” parameter to any one of your 10 Log channels. At the end of your flight, after cycling power you can download the log and look at MIN, MAX, AVG values.
With these info's you can easily understand if the nominal value of your lipo is too low, if the "C" rate of your lipo is too low, if the wires must be shortening, if connector must changed with higher ampere rating connectors.

Remember also that the percentage you want left in to the lipo at the land time is correlated to the Max Burst Discharge "C" value.
EG: if you have a 5000mA lipo with a Max Burst Discharge C value of 120, if you land at 20% this mean that 1000mA (is 5000mA*20%) * 120 (Max Burst Discharge C value) = 120A.
This is the max allowable power peak needed by your power train at the land time.
Otherwise your lipos can easily go below the 3,0V limit threshold (damages and "puff").
So, better if you check also in your logs "Esc Battery Current" to have an idea of current peak values immediately before the land.
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Last edited by BrainDev; 09-10-2017 at 02:09 AM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 04:57 AM   #72 (permalink)
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thanks for your suggestions.

I have different capacity/model/company batteries that i use in the same helicopter, so for me is difficult to think about mA used (I can't change mA alarm setting every flight of course).
I use 4400 , 4500 and 5000 nearly 40/80C
I have voltage alarm set on 43,0 for 12 cells (3,58 V) because I see that normally I arrive to 43,3 in nearly my worst drop voltage.
I try to study often Brain telemetry charts saved. During the flight i understand (with instant voltage alarm) when I demand too much from my electronic. Of course I don't land at first alarm but when it start to be too much often alarms, I understand that i have to decrease my flight style (or land).
In this moment I check in hovering that I have nearly 44,2 and I understand that it's time to land.
Of course I have timer alarm too (4 minutes) and regulator alarm on 3.2V too.
When I land and power off the model, the voltage increase very much even to 45 Volt and with my battery instrument , it says that I still have 40% of battery power inside. The used mA is near 3000 mA

What I want to say?
That if I don't have voltage telemetry, I could fly more time and damage the battery I think.
This is why I was thinking about delay on voltage alarm because in this way I don't put alarm on 43,0V but at 44,4 V with 2 second of delay that eliminate all voltage drops. It could be a second alam without delay that can be on 3,4 volts of course
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:50 AM   #73 (permalink)
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I can change which capacity to alarm for with a switch or a knob (Jeti, though). At the least, you could copy the model and change the alarm in the second model e.g. named Gob4400 & Gob3850. Dan
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:36 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Default MSH Brain and Graupner integration

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbreath View Post
I can change which capacity to alarm for with a switch or a knob (Jeti, though). At the least, you could copy the model and change the alarm in the second model e.g. named Gob4400 & Gob3850. Dan

In the Graupner telemetry system, the sensor module triggers all alarms, so the thresholds have to be set in the module. I sometimes wish there was a way to change the capacity alarm, but I simply set it to a worst case, i.e. ~70% of the pack(s) with the least capacity.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:15 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
In the Graupner telemetry system, the sensor module triggers all alarms, so the thresholds have to be set in the module. I sometimes wish there was a way to change the capacity alarm, but I simply set it to a worst case, i.e. ~70% of the pack(s) with the least capacity.
The simplest, easiest, and fastest solution could be to assign alarm values not to common values like now, but to Setup values. Changing Setup will change the alarm value between three different thresholds. All three setups can have the same value or all three setups can have different values. The only negative aspect is a longer time for the initial input of the values that triple
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Last edited by BrainDev; 09-10-2017 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 04:17 PM   #76 (permalink)
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That could be the ticket if you use each pack size for a different kind of flying. It wouldn’t work for me because I tend to use whatever packs I have at random.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:25 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Unfortunatelly, I still have this point of view: my different kind of battery can be more or less "tired" and more o less of different size and C, the weather can be different as my flying can be more or less aggressive .... so many many variant to be connected only to mA used.
Even the same battery became older and give less mA after many flights.
I image (I hope not to mistake) that the only important think is not exceed on demand from battery voltage. And for me demanding is to go undervoltage for too long time (example too many drop voltage under 3,6 V during flight). I just would like to filter drop voltage for less of one second and check and have voltage alarm during the rest of flight. Am I wrong on it?
I attach one example log
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:11 AM   #78 (permalink)
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README for Brain2/iKon2 HoTT TELEMETRY and INTEGRATION (version 1.2 of 10 November 2017):

5) Using another standard 3-pole female/female cable, like that supplied with the Brain2/iKon2 units, cut away 5mm of the central red wire near either the two connectors (the remaining red wire only keeps the black and white wires together, but you can also totally remove the red wire and twist black and white wires together


6) Connect one end of the cable to a GOV adapter cable (like MSH51606, MSH51605, or one of MSH51626, or MSH51623 WITH THE RED WIRE CUT);


7) Connect the standard connector of this modified cable to the SUMD port of your HoTT receiver (e.g. port 8 on GR-24L / GR-16, port 6 on GR-12L);

8) Connect the small JST connector of the GOV adapter cable to the lateral SAT1 connector of the Brain2/iKon2;

9) Power your transmitter and your receiver. On the transmitter, go in the menus to "Base" -> "TX ctl" -> "BIND ON/OFF" and bind while holding down the bind button on the receiver;

10) Go in the transmitter menus to "Function" -> "Telemetry" -> "SETTING & DATA VIEW", select the "RECV" receiver button, and find the page with "CH OUT TYPE:" using the ENT button. Set it to SUMD, then OF (fail safe=OFF, keeps the Brain2/iKon2 in charge this situation), then the effective number of channels usable with the transmitter (for example, with a MZ-18, set it to 8) or the maximum number of channels you can use with the Brain2/iKon2 (11 channels are sufficient to use all the Brain2/iKon2 functions). This is to avoid having to transmit, receive and decode many channels unnecessarily. With some receivers, you can only set the row "SUMD at CHX" to YES. In this case, remember to set in the transmitter menu: Base -> Fail Safe (F/S) to 000% for the throttle channel (usually CH6 in Heli mode)




This is my first Graupner transmitter. I have followed the above instructions to the letter but I can not get the Brain software to integrate in my transmitter. My setup:


Blade 450 (converted to FBL)
MZ-24 Pro
GR-12L 8 Channel SUMD P/N:S1037
Hobbywing Platinum 60a V4 ESC
iKon2


All have the latest firmware.


On the receiver: the “T S + -” lead goes to CH3 in the iKon2
the SUMD lead (male to male lead w/red wire cut) goes to SAT 1


On the ESC: the signal lead wire (“P”) is connected to PIN 5 in the 4-5-6 slot.
The 2 other wires are cut.


Panel 3 in the setup software is set to HOTT & Telemetry
In Advance Menu>Receiver>Receiver type: set to HOTT & Telemetry


Not using governor as of yet.


When I press Base>Telemetry>Setting & Data View>ESC(tried RECV)> ENT>ENT it will not let me go past the “CH Reverse” screen.
You are supposed to get to the Brain Software this way, correct?


I am doing something wrong but for the life of me I can not figure it out!


Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!


Gary
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:46 AM   #79 (permalink)
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You need to change “SENSOR at CH5” in the receiver configuration in the TX to Yes. Also, the ESC should be connected to CH1 on the iKON, not to the 4-5-6 connector; you shouldn’t need to connect anything to the 4-5-6 connector.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:48 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
You need to change “SENSOR at CH5” in the receiver configuration in the TX to Yes. Also, the ESC should be connected to CH1 on the iKON, not to the 4-5-6 connector; you shouldn’t need to connect anything to the 4-5-6 connector.
Thanks "TheBum"!

I tried your suggestion and changed "Sensor at CH5" to yes. Didn't help. The ESC is connected to CH1. What I'm talking about is the lead wire from the data port on the ESC to the iKon. Attached is a link to the readme file from MHS. Go to page 2, #1 and you can see what I mean.

http://update.mshbrain.com/Software/..._telemetry.pdf

Thanks,
Gary
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