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Old 12-27-2017, 01:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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30% of the throttle curve?. thats the part that doesn't make sense
No, no throttle curve involved.

30% of the total servo travel from the end point specified in the ATV.
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:23 PM   #22 (permalink)
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so if i was flying a nitro then i would setup my servo for full open at full throttle , full closed with throttle cut and idle with throttle hold , but throttle hold would be a percentage of the throttle curve . is it the same for electric . i thought i understood it but now i think i don't
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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So the mainshaft is turning at the speed of the main blades which is currently about 2000RPM, or whatever. The motor is spinning at 30% which would normally only be 600RPM. So if your motor is running at 30% it might actually input a slight amount of power to the mainshaft, negligible really as the one-way just slips by with near impunity. If you ever got down to 600 RPM you'd be falling out of the sky unless you went -3 of pitch really quickly to regain some headspeed.

So that's considering a 700 size heli running around 2000RPM to keep the numbers very even and easy to consider.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:39 AM   #24 (permalink)
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i think i'm losing the thread of this discussion . my throttle hold is set to 30% which in the tribunus esc is 20% . if i am in throttle hold the motor doesn't spin , but it is still set to 30% , which is good for the bail out function, the tribunus doesn't arm in throttle hold because it doesn't see a zero throttle . so my thinking is throttle hold is completely different to my throttle channel but overrides it to stop the throttle channel from working , so i could set th to 80% and it still wouldn't spool up . i haven't tried it but does this sound right?
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think your thinking to much into it.
The 20 or 30% you have set may still be 0 or close to it if the end points have not been set exactly.
The way I understand it is the spool up would be very rapid if it was in fact 30%

Yet The ESC wont arm at 30/50/80% as it needs to see 0 If I recall correctly. It's after it has been holding throttle or gov, when it sees 30% it will spool rapidly next gov command. ( I may be wrong about that since I have not set that up in mine)

End point settings can effect a servo or ESC to where 30% etc are different dependent on endpoint settings.

The servo may be the best 'visible' explanation. End points will set total travel so it doesn't bind and so 'throttle' percentage is then 0/100 in the throttle curve settings..
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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i think i'm losing the thread of this discussion . my throttle hold is set to 30% which in the tribunus esc is 20% . if i am in throttle hold the motor doesn't spin , but it is still set to 30% , which is good for the bail out function, the tribunus doesn't arm in throttle hold because it doesn't see a zero throttle . so my thinking is throttle hold is completely different to my throttle channel but overrides it to stop the throttle channel from working , so i could set th to 80% and it still wouldn't spool up . i haven't tried it but does this sound right?
Anthony
You've pretty much got it. I love the not arming unless zero is seen on the throttle channel as an extra safety feature so that you can plug everything in with TH on yet it's still not armed.

The reason why there is so much confusion around this is the fact that Futaba have mapped the TH switch as a default to both a function which overrides the throttle channel and a condition which overrides everything by bringing into play another flight condition. This has a benefit and a drawback.

The benefit is you only have to set the TH value once in the TH flight mode (8FG) or condition (14SG, 18SZ, ...) depending on model of Tx. This is due to the condition or flight mode being chosen from the switch before the function is then triggered.

The drawback is it's horrendously confusing especially with all those inaccessible TH functions and values hanging around in all the other flight modes or conditions. Hope that helps.

As an aside, the range of throttle, ie zero and 100% should always be set with the full range as defined on the throttle channel via a full range condition or flight mode. In other words don't let the 30 or 17% get in the way and accidentally set a higher or lower lower end for your ESC by invoking TH during setup. Unintended consequences are not being able to invoke auto bailout and in really bad cases not being able to fully spool down. Ask me how I know very scary!
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
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yes . that was my thinking thank you for clarifying . i haven
Anthony 't had anything like that happen but i have had issues setting up esc using th for zero throttle now it makes sense
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:32 AM   #28 (permalink)
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"Unintended consequences are not being able to invoke auto bailout and in really bad cases not being able to fully spool down. Ask me how I know very scary!""

Good comment and a good reason to spool up the first times with no blades. And a great idea to test / verify bailout spool up speed compared to slow spool up on the bench first.
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'll add that I set mine to 0 in the throttle hold screen, recently when recalibrating my jive esc I found the throttle channel at -135 or so instead of -100% when I flipped out of TH, so I raised it to give me -100 same as zero in the throttle curve. ( viewing the servo screen) so no change in 'servo' position from no throttle to throttle hold.

This comes from the end point screen with max available and set end point values.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'll add that I set mine to 0 in the throttle hold screen, recently when recalibrating my jive esc I found the throttle channel at -135 or so instead of -100% when I flipped out of TH, so I raised it to give me -100 same as zero in the throttle curve. ( viewing the servo screen) so no change in 'servo' position from no throttle to throttle hold.

This comes from the end point screen with max available and set end point values.
It seems that you are missing out on auto bailout going with -100 or 0% for TH.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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It seems that you are missing out on auto bailout going with -100 or 0% for TH.
True statement. I am missing out, but I'm not 100% clear on the bailout and startup sequence. I've been so set doing what I do for so long. It'll take me some time to adopt.
However I do auto from way up pretty much each flight and sometimes a few, just not flipping autos. So Yes I should explore that avenue.
Thanks for the push.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:02 PM   #32 (permalink)
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True statement. I am missing out, but I'm not 100% clear on the bailout and startup sequence. I've been so set doing what I do for so long. It'll take me some time to adopt.
However I do auto from way up pretty much each flight and sometimes a few, just not flipping autos. So Yes I should explore that avenue.
Thanks for the push.
I worded that very poorly. I think I'm the one missing out. I only auto when other options are exhausted. I have trouble thinking how you'd benefit from having auto bailout set up if you've already mastered autos

My intention was to warn others that your setup would not allow for use of the Jive auto bailout which would be a shame as Kontronik charged extra for that feature.

I need to add that my statement may be poppycock if you are using a PowerJive and not a HeliJive. Only the later and the JivePro series have auto bailout.
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:45 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I have a scorpion, a couple YGE and an old jive pro. Oh and a HK in one,

I was a bit unclear on the function and that's why I never went there.
I've always wanted and expect to have no throttle when I hit throttle hold and I think the idle during auto part has kept me from doing it.

After doing a bit more research I see that is only required for some esc configurations or also available and selectable with the vbar.


As for having autos perfected- I don't know if I could claim that.
I recently found I had been coming down with too much negative collective and while the blades were still spooled up, the model was coming down really hot and gave me very little room for error as it takes a lot out of the blades to stop the model . Now I go closer to 0 or 2-4 neg and it floats down slower and even has more energy in the blades . I've found it even works excellent in my stretched 480 and my little proto.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Getting the 14sg and CGY headspeed gov. to work was far harder than auto bailout. With Futaba its not just setting a offset throttle hold or cut but end points also.

Auto bailout when enabled is simply a narrow throttle range around 20% in the decreasing direction that allows for fast start. Normal flight above and soft start below.Once the throttle has decreased to soft start range, you are committed to softstart.

Several ways to do it. Throttle curve straight across 0, 70, 100, (Castle 160). So transmitter on throttle holdon and in normal flight mode. Power heli ESC will count cells but will not initialize.Throttle hold off ESC will now initialize, see's 0 throttle. Up to IU1 ESC soft start to gov range.Throttle hold on and off the ESC will now fast start. Select normal flight modeESC will shut off motor throttle hold on or off. Up to IU1 will again softstart. Basically no normal flight mode its now motor off to soft start. Throttle hold is on and off 100-20% that is fast start range. Normal mode drops throttle to 0. Ikons and CGY are setup this way.
End points are for a ikon.
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Old 01-25-2018, 05:37 PM   #35 (permalink)
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YGE in my stretch 480 was success setting up. super easy. (click here in gov tab, 25% in TH) Tried it a few times already. A bit tricky for me to bail out of the auto. Need to play with it a BUNCH to get used to it before 'needing' it.

130 Commander appears to function as well. need to flight test.


Thanks for the suggestions
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:40 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Once you figure out the function and set ramp up speed nothing but fun after.
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