470LT throttle control issues

[motoxxxman]

So since my last crash (failed auto) which really wasn't bad at all, I've been having a weird throttle control issue. My 470LT is completely stock, running the governor on the stock ESC. Throttle curves are flat 65, 73, and 85 for the 3 flight modes. Which typically translates to about 2600, 2900, 3200 for headspeeds. The recent crash was perfectly flat on the skid, but landed too hard and snapped the skid, and tipped over causing blades to fold and a boom strike.

The problem it has now is actually a couple things:
1) the motor shuts off and restarts on occasion, but very quickly, like it went into failsafe mode for a tenth of a second but I still have full cyclic and tail control. And when it comes back in, it doesn't spool soft, it yanks right back to its previous speed when in the 2900 or 3200 FM's. When it happens in the low HS FM, it takes longer to turn back on, and comes in soft like a normal spoolup.
2) changing flight modes doesn't always change the speed of the motor. Sometimes I can be in 2600 FM, switch to 2900 but it doesn't actually accelerate, it stays at 2600. Then I'll click once more up to 3200 and it will go straight from 2600 to 3200. And other way around. In 3200, I can click into 2900 FM, but it stays at 3200. Then clicking down once more sometimes it'll go straight to 2600, and sometimes it will only drop to 2900.
3) the motor will sometimes spin slower in all FM's than it should, or faster in all FM's than it should. For example, I'll run it through all 3 FM's, and it will be 2600, 2900, 3200 like it should. Then I'll run through the FM's again and it'll run around 2300, 2600, 2900. Then I'll run it through all 3 FM's yet again and it'll run 2900, 3200, 3400+
(I tried some pitch pumps when it was over 3400, and holy crap! so much fun! I don't like that high of HS though, doesn't seem safe)

It will do any of these 3 glitches more often on a fresh battery, and less once the battery drains down.

I can not find any visible damage to anything electrical on the entire heli. Not even any abrasion to wires anywhere, let alone any cuts or breaks in anything.
It is not losing reception.
It is not a fault in the TX; it does not do this on any of my other heli's, and I tried a friend's TX and it still does all 3 with his TX on my 470 too.

I have put 9 batteries through it since the issue started. (3 cycles of 3 batteries)
I have reprogrammed the MB+.
I have reprogrammed the stock ESC.
I have made a new model in my TX.
I've re-routed wires, and jiggled wires.
None of these things have cured anything.

Any ideas? I'm not sure if maybe the ESC is crapping out on me, or if there's internal damage in the motor causing pole count to go out of wack which I know does affect the governor function. I don't know what the culprit could be. I haven't ruled out the MB+ yet either.
All thoughts and suggestions welcome.
I'm not rich, I can't afford to just start throwing parts at it in hopes of it fixing the problem.

Oh, also, it seems to glitch most often when on the ground just a hair below mid stick. It'll do all 3 in the air too, but the motor shutting off and back on again is mostly only when on the ground and seeing some ground resonance.
The motor kick isn't very common once in the air, and when it does, it doesn't really bother me. What's driving me the most nuts though is the headspeed not matching what it's programmed to do.

[motoxxxman]

Bump for thoughts? Anybody?

[mattbeau]

It really sound like a motor issue. I had something similar happen on my logo 400se with a scorpion motor and there was a short just on the inside where the motor wires route into the motor can. I was able to duplicate it by wiggling the motor leads under power. I could fly all day without issue, then the next day it would lose power but I still had full control. I replaced ESC, Rx, FBL and ended up with the motor.

[motoxxxman]

Thank you. I'll start there and see what I can find. Wondering if there's a bad solder joint at the bullet connector

[DPW]

Originally Posted by motoxxxman

crash been having a throttle control
motor shuts off and restarts on occasion,
motor will sometimes spin slower
Any ideas? I'm not sure if maybe the ESC is crapping out on me,

Yes
I agree with you it is a faulty ESC.

It is to expensive replacing the Align ESC
so
IMO Buy/Install a HW 60A ESC

I did this ESC upgrade and I like it and to program the ESC all you need is a

USB Programming Adapter for HobbyKing X-Car 120A & 60A ESC $5

You just load the software on a computer and connect the above USB to the ESC

[DPW]

FYI
HW 50A ESC will work
but
60 is v4 where the 50 is v3 so you loose some functions with the lower v3 hardware.

[mattbeau]

The big difference for v3 vs V4 is the V4 has active freewheeling. Basically it recycles wasted energy if you run a bad gear ratio. for instance if you wanted to run a really low head speed with a high gear ratio, and you need to go down to 40% throttle for your desired headspeed, you won't overheat your ESC and will actually get longer flight times then if you were using an ESC without active freewheeling.

I just found this AWSOME explaination.

How BLDC Active Free-wheeling (Synchronous Rectification) works.. (10 min 27 sec)

[motoxxxman]

I'm actually leaning towards the motor being the culprit, theory being pole count not always being correct due to some form of internal damage. Reason I'm guessing this is that right around the time this issue started, the motor sometimes beeps much quieter on initialization than normal. But if I give the motor a little bump while beeping the sound will go back to the normal loud tone.

Are Align motors rebuildable? Tips for disassembly if so?

[squibcakes]

I had the align governor fail after about 20 flights. One of the FETS inside burnt out. My tell tail sign was a hot ESC from the start. Is yours hot too?


I put in a HW60V4 and no issues.


The MB+ low throttle setting is very crucial to setup too - not sure if that is your issue but that will cause issue below mid stick.

[motoxxxman]

Throttle fail-safe in MB+ is set correctly.
My ESC stays bone cold until it's been flown a little

[baba_yaga]

My motor does the same thing with the loud and quite beeping. Since the motor is acting like a speaker depending on where the magnets in the motor fall determines how loud the tone is. My 450 does the same thing.

[motoxxxman]

Originally Posted by baba_yaga

My motor does the same thing with the loud and quite beeping. Since the motor is acting like a speaker depending on where the magnets in the motor fall determines how loud the tone is. My 450 does the same thing.

ok, so that may be normal then.
I haven't monkeyed with it much yet lately, too broke lol. It still flies, so I still fly it.

[Thickfog]

Originally Posted by motoxxxman

ok, so that may be normal then.
I haven't monkeyed with it much yet lately, too broke lol. It still flies, so I still fly it.

Yes, almost all of my helis do this also. The 470l the most for whatever reason
Why they all don't, I have no idea.

[markb50]

I think it's your esc, I have 470lt and running the stock kit electronics, I got about 4 flights in before esc shut down then 2 more flights were ok before it shut down again. now running HW 60 platinum and it is great. It is smaller easier to mount. This was first time I have had new align electronics bad.
good luck