Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > SAB Goblin 630/700/770


SAB Goblin 630/700/770 SAB Heli Division 630/700/770 - Goblin Helicopters Factory Support


Like Tree257Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2019, 07:25 PM   #521 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2005
Default

The manual calls for Green Loctite in certain areas. In my past builds, Green Loctite was for wicking around bearings and is ultra thin. After reading the description for SAB Green Retaining Compound part number HA115-S it says “high strength”. So is this different from the green “Loctite” or “Permatex” brand which is thin and wicks? Or is this “high strength” more like the Red permanent Loctite?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
m60e3 is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-01-2019, 09:42 AM   #522 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,466
 

Join Date: Oct 2012
Default

It has been my experience in the past that whether the product is a generic or an official Locktite brand, that they tend to all adhere (excuse the pun) to the red/green/blue convention. If you see the places where the green in used in the SAB manual, it is semi permanent and tight wicking apps, and they suggest a torch to remove. Just my $0.02


BTW - do you have a m60? By far the sexiest 7.62
__________________
Rotormantic - Goblin 770(14S), Trex 550E(8S), Mini Protos Stretch(6S)

Last edited by FNFAL; 06-01-2019 at 10:45 AM..
FNFAL is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2019, 10:47 AM   #523 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pape View Post
The thing is I now feel the bearings crunchy even when dissembled in my hands.
You must have caused 'Brinelling' of the inner radial bearing due to having too much pre-load. The bearings should never be pre-loaded so tight that they feel notchy. That notchiness is caused by the races being indented (Brinelling) and if you feel it you have probably already damaged the bearing.

It's the inner radial bearing that is usually damaged because they aren't designed to take high axial loads.
__________________
Gob 700 BT 'T' | Gob 770 Comp | Gob 700 Speed | Trex 700X | SoXos Strike 7| Tarot 600| | XLPower 700 and 520 | Henseleit TDR | Kasama Dune 600
Grumpy_Old_Man is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2019, 10:33 PM   #524 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man View Post
You must have caused 'Brinelling' of the inner radial bearing due to having too much pre-load. The bearings should never be pre-loaded so tight that they feel notchy. That notchiness is caused by the races being indented (Brinelling) and if you feel it you have probably already damaged the bearing.

It's the inner radial bearing that is usually damaged because they aren't designed to take high axial loads.
Yes that is exactly what happened. I just dint know its called Brinelling.
Its the two inner radial bearings that are held in place with retaining compound from the factory. When I hold the grips in my hand whiout the fethering shaft inside. I put my finger agains the bearing and when rotated I feel it crunchy. This was after assembling and disassembling the head with just the 1.0mm washers like the manual states, I never used the thinner 0.2mm shims. Since this bearings are fitted from the factory and, I din't have any new bearings of the same size on hand, I just decided to complete the build. I will fly it like this a few flights and, later install new bearings, on the grips.

One thing I did notice is that even after sanding the 1.0mm shims to have an acceptable amount of preload. The outer radial bearing shield rubs against the washer that is on the fathering shaft bolt. I can hold it against my ear and clearly hear the grinding wile rotating the grip back and forth.

(Feathering shaft bolt) (washer) GRIND (Outer radial bearing on grip)

This is on the two ends of the feathering shaft.
pape is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2019, 01:47 PM   #525 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,855
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

hallo helifreaks
just wondering if anybody got drifting issues , maiden mine this evening and flies very nicely on the first F-mode @ 1800 but when I switch to the 2nd mode @ 1950 the heli will take a heavy turn to the right , så didn't taste all 3 F-mode , using brain2 ( that I took out of my HD500 and is in good condition , never had issue on the HD500 ) any ideas
__________________
| Kraken 700 : brain2 | Goblin 700 : Brain2HD | Atom 6HV : Spirit pro | HD Cell 500 : brain2 |
ragge1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2019, 02:52 PM   #526 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 988
 

Join Date: Jul 2016
Default

Have the same issue, also using Brain2. You can find my post about this in the official Kraken support FB group.

I received an email from SAB and they said that it is a known problem and they are testing solutions to this. We are supposed to get more information soon.
ragge1 and tporter416 like this.
__________________
Michael
Kraken; Oxy 4 MAX; Oxy 3 TE18; 230S Night
mulchi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2019, 03:07 PM   #527 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Dec 2013
Default

Is it just with the Brain2 flybarless systems or are other systems affected as well?
Wyno is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2019, 03:11 PM   #528 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,855
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulchi View Post
Have the same issue, also using Brain2. You can find my post about this in the official Kraken support FB group.

I received an email from SAB and they said that it is a known problem and they are testing solutions to this. We are supposed to get more information soon.
thanks , just read thro' your post , hope they find the solution soon , it was not a nice feeling when it happened , wanted to test my gov in all F-mode but end up flying in the first mode
__________________
| Kraken 700 : brain2 | Goblin 700 : Brain2HD | Atom 6HV : Spirit pro | HD Cell 500 : brain2 |
ragge1 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2019, 07:34 PM   #529 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,126
 

Join Date: Dec 2014
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyno View Post
Is it just with the Brain2 flybarless systems or are other systems affected as well?
Bert and Kyle talk about the drift on this podcast at around 29 minutes in. At the time of recording, they only knew of the issue for some people with vbar neo in a metal case.

Episode #41: Give me all your love ? BK RC Podcast

I suspect the heli is just so rigid it may be really sensitive to how/where the fbl is mounted, and/or vibrations from somewhere. I don't have one (yet) so don't know anything about it.

I still really want one but have to wait for a few reasons.
__________________
Protos Max V2 (build), Synergy 516 (build) Logo 480xx (build), Gaui NX4 (build), Protos 380 (build), Oxy2 215 Sport (build)
ultrataco is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 08:29 AM   #530 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 1,466
 

Join Date: Oct 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrataco View Post

...I suspect the heli is just so rigid it may be really sensitive to how/where the fbl is mounted, and/or vibrations from somewhere. I don't have one (yet) so don't know anything about it...

To that end, it would be interesting to see on the vibration analyzer if with this new design there are inherent differences in frequencies/magnitude generated vis a vis the Goblin predecessor a la straight cut second stage and tail jackshaft.
__________________
Rotormantic - Goblin 770(14S), Trex 550E(8S), Mini Protos Stretch(6S)

Last edited by FNFAL; 06-05-2019 at 10:05 AM..
FNFAL is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #531 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,329
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

Loving my Kraken .. no issues at all running Vcontrol and neo.. just bought another Kraken it’s that good



ToddM, ultrataco and Omegatron like this.
__________________
Synergy 766 12s/ 766 14s / 696/ Synergy 556/556 nitro Align 700X/700XN
Black Thunder 700T / Black Nitro 700x3 / SAB 500 Sport/ SAB Kraken x3/GUAI X7FZ.
GUAI X5 V2/ Vcontrol/Neo
Locktite is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 12:09 PM   #532 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 359
 

Join Date: Feb 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyno View Post
Is it just with the Brain2 flybarless systems or are other systems affected as well?
I have a Brain 2 and haven't had this issue, however I keep getting vertical sensor out of range errors in my event log. Doesn't affect the flying of the Kraken, just the rescue keeps getting disabled...
__________________
SAB Goblin 420 & 500 & Kraken
MSH Protos V2 Max
Oxy 2
Blade mCPX BL, nano CP S
tporter416 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 12:21 PM   #533 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 359
 

Join Date: Feb 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
To that end, it would be interesting to see on the vibration analyzer if with this new design there are inherent differences in frequencies/magnitude generated vis a vis the Goblin predecessor a la straight cut second stage and tail jackshaft.
I can post some of my logs, the vibration analyser from my Brain 2 actually shows the vibrations to be less than 25% in the Z axis and about 1/2 that in the X and Y axis. I was going to try the Futaba gyro tape next as it is a common recommendation for Brain 2 vibration issues. It must be hard to make one FBL control unit that can handle a wide range of vibrations from a wide range of heli's...
__________________
SAB Goblin 420 & 500 & Kraken
MSH Protos V2 Max
Oxy 2
Blade mCPX BL, nano CP S
tporter416 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 12:50 PM   #534 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 19,066
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyno View Post
Is it just with the Brain2 flybarless systems or are other systems affected as well?
Brain just has a lot of high resolution logging sophistication. So it’s measuring the model vibration and conservatively deciding if it’s in good enough shape to allow rescue operation.

I think one major contributor to Kraken vibration signatures is the poor FBL tray design. It’s an unsupported carbon plate hanging off only two bolts from one side. It’s prone to vibration and resonance.

Maybe some aftermarket parts will address it.
__________________
Xpert
Only Fine Helis
OnTheSnap is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 12:51 PM   #535 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Apr 2010
Default

@locktite Another?! Dude...your going to need a heli storage unit...
ToddM is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 01:09 PM   #536 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 988
 

Join Date: Jul 2016
Default

I hope (and kind of expect) SAB will find a fix for this.

Bringing a new air frame to the market that has vibrations that essentially kill rescue operations of FBL systems is hard to justify with other improvements. But I'm confident that they will find a solution that does not involve a HUGE gel pad, like some have posted.
__________________
Michael
Kraken; Oxy 4 MAX; Oxy 3 TE18; 230S Night
mulchi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 01:18 PM   #537 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 19,066
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulchi View Post
I hope (and kind of expect) SAB will find a fix for this.

Bringing a new air frame to the market that has vibrations that essentially kill rescue operations of FBL systems is hard to justify with other improvements. But I'm confident that they will find a solution that does not involve a HUGE gel pad, like some have posted.
They already started to ship a metal FBL support plate. Not sure how much it'll help, since the single sided mounting isn't fixed. But hopefully they are doing the analysis.
__________________
Xpert
Only Fine Helis
OnTheSnap is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 01:21 PM   #538 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 988
 

Join Date: Jul 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
They already started to ship a metal FBL support plate. Not sure how much it'll help, since the single sided mounting isn't fixed. But hopefully they are doing the analysis.
I have this already in use and can say that it doesn't improve anything regarding Brain
__________________
Michael
Kraken; Oxy 4 MAX; Oxy 3 TE18; 230S Night
mulchi is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 01:25 PM   #539 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 784
 

Join Date: Oct 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
They already started to ship a metal FBL support plate. Not sure how much it'll help, since the single sided mounting isn't fixed. But hopefully they are doing the analysis.

I don't own a kraken, but thought I remembered you posting there were two trays included, and you suspected the longer one would cause problems with FBL units. Am I remembering correctly? Maybe the guys having problems are using the longer ones?
__________________
Check out Full-Pitch RC heli podcast!

www.cajunaircraft.com <-
slogoat is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #540 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 19,066
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NorCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slogoat View Post
I don't own a kraken, but thought I remembered you posting there were two trays included, and you suspected the longer one would cause problems with FBL units. Am I remembering correctly? Maybe the guys having problems are using the longer ones?
Yah, the long one should not be used IMO. If you "flick it", it oscillates like a diving board.

Maybe the long term solution is to build in a FBL support into the main gear assembly? Anyway, I assume they are already working on this, else they wouldn't be shipping free metal replacements for the FBL mounting.
slogoat likes this.
__________________
Xpert
Only Fine Helis
OnTheSnap is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1