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Old 09-08-2018, 11:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Out of Control

Took a hard crash the other day. I changed a lot of parts because the K110 started acting crazy. Just this morning I was able to get a good hover. I turned it off, put in a new battery after waiting a little while and it went back to acting straight crazy. When I say crazy, I mean spinning around, wanting to fall over to one side and hug the floor. Could the main board be bad? I've got a BNF on the way next week but would love to fix this one.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Could be a broken wire to the tail motor or a bad tail motor.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've got a spare boom and motor, I'll give it a try this afternoon. Thanks!
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Replaced the tail boom and new motor, all was looking good right until it barely left the ground and then it goes bat crazy again. I'm just about at my wits end.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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For me it seems that your main board is dead. Asuming that all of your shafts are new and you dont have some serious vibrations (bad blades etc...)
I dont know what it is doing, when you are talking about crazy, but maybe your servos are acting up? On my k110 i had one servo that was twitching realy bad, i disassembled it, but it back together and it was fine up to now.
My k110 is finaly dead, it wont bind anymore... RIP.
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Old 09-09-2018, 10:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, it seems the board is bad. Spent some time this morning making sure that all the pitches were correct and the swash level. Spin it up and the tail works sometimes and the heli just wants to roll over to either side doing blade strikes to the ground. I'll just wait until my BNF gets here and then maybe get a board for the spare heli.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Finally figured it out! I was using Goo 30C battery instead of 25C batteries and apparently that makes a HUGE difference. Could someone please elaborate on this for me.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Which mode are you flying?
If 6G, using accidentally 3D would explain that. Just a thought...
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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6G for sure, I checked everything every time. Except for the battery..
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I am flying in 3D mode and don't bother to use 6G any more.

However when I started to fly this heli 3D mode was too wild for me, practically uncontrollable. OTOH 6G mode was nice and stable.
At that time I once took off with switch in 3D mode and that experience was exactly like you described. So, my money is on that theory: you probably had 3D on.

After having some practise I started to try 3D mode more and more and finally stayed there. Much more fun as you can do anything with this little heli!
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I wish it was that I had it on 3d mode. I tried both again this afternoon with what I thought was a battery issue. I was wrong again. Still acts crazy as hell and the problem is intermittent. About every 5th or 6th try it acts like it should and every other time, well extremely uncontrollable. I've got a new esc and receiver board coming from banggood as well as my BNF bird will be here Thursday so at least I can get back to flying then. If anyone else has any ideas please throw them at me. Thanks!
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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My BNF came in today. What a HUGE difference. It sounds different, flies 1000% better and the motor wiring is even different. I'm just wondering if I originally got a 2nd or a knock off. Either way I'm back to flying and that's what matters.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I guess you found the cause. Looks like your receiver/FBL board is toast.
Good to be able to continue flying, though.

There are at least two different spec motors.
The older one has less power but both are flyable.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I appreciate that information. That must be the case. I’ve got a ESC and board coming so hopefully I’ll have a back up.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Have you checked your feathering shaft? It could be bent as well as the main shaft. They could have both bent in the crash.
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Old 09-13-2018, 11:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Actually that was the first two things that I replaced.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi,

Did you ever try replacing the board? Did that solve the problem?

Thanks
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacraracer View Post
Replaced the tail boom and new motor, all was looking good right until it barely left the ground and then it goes bat crazy again. I'm just about at my wits end.



Could you show me how how to replace the tail boom and the new motor. My tail motor just getting loose. Thanks.
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Old 04-21-2020, 07:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Also out of control

I waited for two months and I've never been so excited to wait this long for a toy. I've now had it 3 months and I absolutely hate this helicopter. My very first flight the tail motor quit working or so it seemed. Even at Full Throttle I could throw 100% Rudder in either direction and only very occasionally would the tail motor start to spin but it would never spin fast enough keep it facing One Direction. Banggood sent me a tail motor. I wired it in and now the thing just goes in circles. I ordered a new board and a couple of extra tail Motors. Brand new board and a brand new tail Motor and lo and behold it spins in circles. I've now had a chance to study what it's doing and I'm even more lost than the first day I tried to fly it. When slowly spooling up the tail moves to the right a little bit and is easily corrected. I can get to about 3/4 throttle and I have control of the rudder and just at the point of lift off 8 out of 10 times will begin to spiral out of control but never is it consistent which direction it's going to spin out of control. When it is 6 in or more off the ground and spinning out of control there is no amount of Rudder that can stop the spin. It works absolutely fine until your 2 in off the ground... I'm absolutely lost and I'm about to throw this thing in the garbage. Besides the main board what tells the tail motor how to respond? I realized these were probably made by small children but to have two boards doing the exact same thing seems really hard to believe.
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Old 04-21-2020, 02:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hi,

what board version is it? V6?

Have you changed anything like the foam pad and going for a tighter one which is not 3mm?

Your story sounds a bit like my two helis I have right now.
Tail does not work correctly.
Even it it spins and hold a bit on the ground, it may stop in the air after you lift off.
Even if the tail keeps spinning in the air, the whole heli feels very weird on the nick / roll and may make quite strange things; it flies now so much worse than before.

As I had two other helis / boards where everything was great, even on the one BNF #2 with the V6 board and the wobbly (higher) default black foam pad...as soon as I had replaced the foam pad with the red 3M VHB foam pad (2,3mm thick) it suddenly stopped working.


What I have found out so far:

I)

When I remove the main blades with the top head so only the main shaft the main gear (including the swashplate) is connected, I can feel pretty nasty vibrations....on both of them (well, let's say on all three).

Not to say that the working BNF #3 (with the V5 board an different 3mm high foam pad) does not generate any vibrations which I can even feel...

.......but obviously even if you feel at the tail fin, the front plastic where you connect the landing gear to the main frame (where the three cables come out of the ESC) and also on the main board (left front side, where the gyro chip is soldered on) it does not affect the main board #3 with written V5.


You can also check the two servo push rods to the swashplate if you see and feel bad vibrations (the front elevator + one roll).

Then I have inspected the two helis which do not like to work / hover any more with a very strange tail behaviour (either it stops or it goes full 360 degree, even on the ground):

The brushless main motor bell is corrupted.


Any vibrations can come from the bell of a outrunner brushless motor.
I had it once on a 2s motor for the Walkera V120d02s.
The bell on bigger outrunner motors also needs to be correctly balanced in the factory.

Actually, you could feel it on the main frame, motor cables, ESC, etc.
So I had to swap the motor with a new one (balanced bell).

On the K110 you just have to try to pull back the bell (upwards).
If there is ANY movement on the motor shaft, you may have successfully identified the bad player as it gear pinion will be moving.
The golden safety ring should absolutely hold the bell of the outrunner motor in place.
There should be ZERO slop.

Exactly this is the case on the BNF #3 and so it works quite good in 3G mode (but not in 6G!!!)....even with a different foam pad...even I can feel some vibrations.

I have no good explanation why this is happening on my two helis because the safety ring right before the motor bearing is not loose.
I can't press it down any further.

On the BNF #1 I also have some (slight) slip with the bell...but not that heavily like on the other one.
Interestingly, I can feel the vibrations and the 2,3mm tighter foam pad may affect how the gyro/sensors react on the V6 board.

As far as I know, in general the foam pad should work...

.....at least it did on the very first BNF #1 with the V5 board until I damaged the ESC and 101 inducator (it was my own fault; and then there was some short circuit on the board because I touched the wrong pad on the bottom with the multimeter).

Maybe XK has change the firmware code of the board for V6 and requires a very soft foam pad so their filter algorithms work....

But on BNF #2 with the newer V6 there is quite some big slop with the BL main outrunner bell so this can't be right!
I can easily pull it back and you can definitely see the bigger distance and you see how the pinion gear (at the end of the motor shaft) moves up/down on the main gear.


..(...)..

I just can hope that I have found the main cause of the heavy vibrations...but I am not sure, not yet.

But it makes sense:

- I had exchanged the main gear (there is now not any wobble, the new one runs butter smooth)
- I added a new main shaft to avoid any vibrations
- the head is not mounted

Where else should the heavy vibrations come from corrupting the 3-axis and tail gyro sensors?
Surely not from the alu swashplate.
It is a brand new V6 board.
The other heli is also V6 and new, was assembled in China and actually was flying before (before I changed the foam pad) well (maybe not that very precise in the air because of the wobbly foam pad...but it worked not too bad).


II)

Make sure to glue the K110 prop onto the tail motor shaft.

I also have noticed that the shaft spins but the K110 tail prop is not holding on it and the motor spins freely, without moving the prop.

I think this is another issue and you also might be affected from it.
Because of this I have added the K120 tail prop where the hole is much tigther.
So when you hard press it onto the K110 0715mm (or is it 0720mm??) tail motor, the shaft will not spin freely, without the prop.
I am quite sure that for any reason is also happening with the K110 tail prop on those two BNF helis, especially when I saw that the tail prop stopped spinning.


---------------

Final recommendation

If you want to have some fun with the K110 in the 3G mode (6G modes are not working on V5 boards for me), you actually have to buy 2-3 (or maybe 4) K110 BNF helis.

For now you have tried to focus on a single component like the tail motor, main board, etc.

But you have not tried 2-4 different BNF helis.


If you only try to swap single components for replacement, it may be too hard for you to detect the final error, as it can rely somewhere else.


My advice:

Don't give up too soon.
The K110 is really a very nice helicopter, has the right weight (60g), you can bomb it -- as a true beginner -- into the field without much happening.
The 3G mode is great and feels very direct on the sticks.
Not every BNF heli model is bad.

On some BNF ones different parts can be affected (like head, bearings, too tight servo gears, corrupted tail motor,...).

IMHO there is not any other heli (besides Trex 150X 2s, OMPHobby M2) which comes close.
The MCPX V2 from a friend had several problems comparing it to the K110.

If you go for Blade helis from HorizonHobby be aware that the brushed main motors are crap, do not hold very long and that there is not any guarantee how long the Blade main board (with the included ESC, tail FETs, tail gyros, etc.), which is very expensive if you have to replace it on your own, holds.

So push through it, put all anger by side....do NOT throw the K110 into the bin and make sure not to bang your head against the wall :-)

There will be a solution for your problem and you will have some (big) fun afterwards.
If you do not find the main cause (maybe there are 2,3 or 4 things which are wrong?!) yourself your only option is to go for 2-4 more BNF K110 helis.

Let me know how you are doing.

Best regards from Germany
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