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Mikado V-BAR Mikado V-Stabi/V-BAR Flybarless System Software and Hardware Support


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Old 07-21-2019, 04:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Motor spools down when inverted or on full negative upright

Looking for some help with a goblin 380 with a Vbar Neo.
I moved to Vbar recently and have fitted a Neo to a Goblin 380, and am using V control.
It's been flying well for several weeks, but the other day when I flipped inverted the motor spooled down.
As soon as a moved the Heli back to normal orientation the motor spooled back up again.
I tried spooling up on the ground with negative pitch and that's fine.
Took it up in the air and with it level went full negative, again the motor spooled down, so it's not just inverted.
On raising the collective again the motor spooled back up.

The log suggests the governor has switched off.
It feels just like using a standard transmitter in normal mode so when you forgot to idle up, and went inverted, the throttle curve went to 0

Spooling up and flying around without excessive negative or going inverted seems fine.

I have checked the wiring and don't see anything exposed / touching the frame etc.

I have a caste Tallon 90 esc and a Hobbywing phase sensor fitted which appeared to work when I installed the Neo

Any pointers gratefully received.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First things first, be certain that your ESC is in external Governor mode. that may be low-probability, but there aren't a whole bunch of explanations that jump out for this one.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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tribunus 80A esc and done. all telemetry, and plug and play with vcontrol.. or the yge-t 65A.. same thing.
like K2 said, nothing really jumps out at me either.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Direct stick control to ESC is still on. Must be off for proper governor control.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Direct stick control to ESC is still on. Must be off for proper governor control.
I'm not sure this is the case as if the above was true, would it not spool down when going to full negative while on ground?
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'm not sure this is the case as if the above was true, would it not spool down when going to full negative while on ground?
Quote:
Spooling up and flying around without excessive negative or going inverted seems fine.
But the OP mentions when going full negative the motor does spool down.

For castle creations you set throttle to say 30% for 1st head speed then 70 and then 100 for the three head speeds. I suspect as long as the throttle stick is above 30% the OP is getting his first head speed.

The only way for a motor to spool down when using a VBC is as Vinger pointed out, direct bank is being used in one of the banks.

For electric models this makes no sense whatsoever though, imho.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
But the OP mentions when going full negative the motor does spool down.
He states in his first post that on the ground when going negative pitch that everything is fine?

"I tried spooling up on the ground with negative pitch and that's fine"
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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And I quote, "Took it up in the air and with it level went full negative, again the motor spooled down, so it's not just inverted."

The final piece of the puzzle is if Mackie has the talon set to use its governor or not and the setting in the VBC for using direct bank.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
And I quote, "Took it up in the air and with it level went full negative, again the motor spooled down, so it's not just inverted."
Well done, you're catching on to the fact it does it while physically moving but not static on the ground.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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"does it while physically moving but not static on the ground"

Which makes even less sense...

We need to hear back from OP about ESC gov setting and throttle curves.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Until the OP comes back there is no way of knowing how much negative pitch is being applied whilst the model is on the ground together with the configuration of the talon governor and the configuration of the VBC.

All is guess work until those facts are known but you seem to be implying there is a difference for the throttle setting depending on whether the model is in flight or on the ground. Perhaps you could explain how either the ESC and motor or transmitter knows?

Quote:
and throttle curves
The VBC doesn't have throttle curves only ESC out values, one per bank, unless the OP has set direct bank for one of the banks and then throttle follows collective stick.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It was full negative while on the ground. Its what made us think it was a wire contacting something while upside down or in a full negative decent but he has stated the wires appeared fine.

Next test up the field will be to take the blades off and hold it upside down while trying to recreate it.

One thing i did notice was that it wasnt a slow start when going back to upright, it was as quick as a bailout spool up.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm definitely spit-balling on this one. I would have no idea how to create that situation. The thing that was tick-tocking in my head was that the gov turns off at 50% stick in a "normal" mode and he mentioned seeing that in the log.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
The thing that was tick-tocking in my head was that the gov turns off at 50%
The CC ESCs use the ESC out value to select a head speed when using its internal governor. 30% for 1st, 70% for 2nd and 100% for 3rd. The actual head speed is set using the castle link program. At what point below 30% the governor drops out I don't know.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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That's how it always worked back when I had CC products. But you could leave the bottom TC point at 0 and use VBar gov and "normal mode" together. For some reason I used to think that was a good thing.

This is going to be interesting. Hope OP returns with some info...
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks all for your interest!
Tribunus would be great but seems an expensive fix. I do have one on another vbar heli and it is good, but just back from 2 weeks holidays so that option is out.

Looking now at my castle setting, not familiar with these so let me know if anything jumps out

Vehicle type - external governor
Throttle type - fixed end points
Initial spool up - medium 5
All others on the throttle tab are greyed out
Auto rotation enable is not ticked

Brake 0 disabled

Cutoffs
Cut off voltage Auto LiPo
Auto LiPo Volts / Cell 3.2
Voltage cut off - soft cut
Current limiting- disabled
Current cut off -soft cut

Motor
Start power - medium
Motor timing high (Xnova 2820 890 10P XTS)
Direction - forward
PWM Rate -12khz

Other
Power on beep enabled
BEC voltage 6V
Live link disabled

Version 4,25

I don't see direct stick control to ESC on the Vcontrol transmitter.

Tried this evening to make sure the tail had continuity to the body which it didn't. So I now have continuity, but that made no difference.
I didn't think it would but thought I would eliminate that.

So as Andy suggested I'll take the main and tail blades off an give it a bounce around and see if it still does it-

Cheers
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's been a while, but those settings look exactly right to me. Loose wire, intermittent type issue sounds more likely now...
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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one of the current settings needs to be set to incensitive..

I don't think that will solve the prob but it needs to be set to incensitive.
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Cheers, i did just power up the heli and gave it a pretty serious shake, no issues during that, so blades off tomorrow, spool it up, move it around and see if i can replicate the issue.
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
one of the current settings needs to be set to incensitive..

I don't think that will solve the prob but it needs to be set to incensitive.
Cheers, which one?
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